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Need hydraulic lift

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016+)' started by Dkurtz42, Dec 5, 2018.

  1. Dec 6, 2018 at 9:30 PM
    #21
    hiPSI

    hiPSI Laminar Flow

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    Here ya go.
    Four versus five tire rotation analysis. I will use round numbers to make the math easy to follow:

    Basic assumptions:
    1. You rotate tires every 10K miles to maximize life
    2. Each tire costs $200.00 (just a number and could be + or -)
    3. Cross rotate and work in spare for both directions ( I know Toyota says front to back but the math works out the same so either way is fine)
    4. Tires are not uni-directional
    5. You have a vehicle with a matching spare tire and rim with a TPMS.
    6. Each tire has a max 50K tread life
    7. You like the brand and type of tire you have and will stick with it.
    8. You drive 20K miles (or more) a year.

    Okay. So you have a brand new vehicle with good 50K tires, unlike the stock tires we all have (had) to begin with.

    In a 4 tire rotation, you will rotate the tires 4 times and buy a new set at 50K for $800.00. You will have 4 worn out tires. Your spare will still be new and you could replace your spare with a new one and use the spare in with the new set to keep shelf life on spare optimal.

    In a 5 tire rotation you will rotate tires 5 times and at 60K you will have 4 worn out tires and your original spare will have 10K miles left. Following the rules above you buy 5 new tires for a cost of $1000.00

    So, if you are a 5 tire rotator (lol) you got 10K extra miles out of the set but at a cost of $200.00. You COULD keep the 10K tire for a spare and go to a future 4 tire rotation and save $200.00 but you now have an almost worn out spare that is showing some age. If you buy 5 tires and go back through the process you save no money.

    The conclusion to all this is simple: Both ways are fine to use but there is no savings doing it either way. Also notice I put a spare with the same rim and TPMS under the back to make it apples to apples. If you have to either have a shop dismount and remount a tire every rotation or you purchase an additional rim with TPMS up front you are losing money. FWIW I do a 4 tire rotation. If you trade the vehicle sometime, or go to a different type or size of tire, or have to replace one due to damage then this negates any savings as well. So, the 5 tire change is no more economical as a 4 tire rotation in the long run. Sure you go 20% longer maybe but you spend 20% more. It's up to you.
     
    Dkurtz42 [OP] and Amanelot like this.
  2. Dec 6, 2018 at 9:57 PM
    #22
    Amanelot

    Amanelot Well-Known Member

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    Alright, I agree with your conclusion here, but I do see some issues.
    First is the spare you left sit under the truck for 2.5 years without being used. Rubber likes to be used, it likes to be flexed. When it sits without being "worked out" it starts to dry rot and affect the structural integrity of the tire. Plus, you add in all the dirt and debree that has been kicked up onto it over the past 2.5 years and that only speeds up the aging process of the rubber. I would not put a 2.5 year old spare on my vehicle and run it for another potential 2.5 years.
    Next issue that isnt addressed in your post is the affect of tread height across axles on 4x4s. Tread height that isnt matching can cause serious differential damage to our trucks. Commercial standards for tread height matching is 25%. I'm using commercial standards because passenger vehicles are not regulated as heavily as commercial vehicles are. Passenger tires average about 12/32nds. This gives us roughly 3/32nds of tread height difference we can use without damaging our trucks. If you are getting 50k miles out of a set of tires on 4 tire rotation, that means you lose 4/32nds a year. This means that you have 1.5 years of driving around with a spare tire that could potentially damage your truck if used, which in my opinion makes it useless.

    In conclusion, I argue that 5 tire rotation is better (especially for 4x4s) not because of cost, but for reliability. The rubber compound will remain healthier, and the potential risk of differential damage from tread height differences is negated. We bought a toyota because of the legendary reliability, right? Why screw your self out of some?
     
  3. Dec 6, 2018 at 10:02 PM
    #23
    NunyaBizness

    NunyaBizness Meowderator

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    Yall writing full on doctoral dissertations here... way to give it the beans!:thumbsup:

    Props
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
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  4. Dec 6, 2018 at 10:43 PM
    #24
    hiPSI

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    Tire storage is fine for five years in a sheltered location, since UV ray's are the real killer of tires.
    Tires maintain their integrity for several years flexed or unflexed. As long as they maintain their elasticity.
    As far as worn versus new and the different diameters... if your tires are exactly the same size and you happen to go around a gentle left hand turn with a 2000 ft radius, think interstate, what is the rotational difference between inside and outside tire? A lot lol, actually your outside tire will make three more revolutions than your inside tire, just in that one long turn!. These are the things those engineers took into account when designing the vehicle.
    There is no warning, no caution nor anything telling you not to run a worm and a new tire of the same size. They tell you not to run mismatched tires though. That's because, unless you drive a perfectly straight line forever, chances are that, in a normal hour long drive, the rotational differences between tires will be hundreds of rpms different because of curves. No different than running a worn and a new tire.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
    NunyaBizness and Amanelot like this.
  5. Dec 7, 2018 at 1:43 AM
    #25
    Dkurtz42

    Dkurtz42 [OP] Bill Hwang

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    4” RC lift 20 x 9 fuel assault wheels 33x12.5x20 Trail Grapplers
    I never make one way trips. Meaning whatever turns I make in one direction are compensated by the inverse rotation on the way back. In theory this should provide even wear. Plus the earths rotation, the tides around different moon phases will play a factor. Did I sound smart too? Interesting point / counter points by you guys. In the end. I do know I’ll avoid floor jacks and 2 x 4s @NunyaBizness because I like to live. Lol.
     
  6. Dec 7, 2018 at 5:40 AM
    #26
    Amanelot

    Amanelot Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the shelf life of tires stored in a warehouse. I dont agree when mounted up on a wheel with constant stress on the belt package. The rubber is not the only thing that deteriorates over time. Consumers though, do not agree. It is hard to sell tires that are more then a few months old.

    You are absolutely right, engineers did take difference in rotation into account when designing the vehicle. But you're point is referring to tires of the same tread height, we were discussing tires not matching in tread height. This can exaggerate the rotational differences you talked about, leading to an issue.
     
    hiPSI likes this.
  7. Dec 7, 2018 at 12:26 PM
    #27
    NunyaBizness

    NunyaBizness Meowderator

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    Good Boy:thumbsup: yeah I would definitely avoid it. But if you you cant. Lift it it that way. And hold with jack stands
     

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