New Mobil 1 oil annual protection 1yr or up to 20k miles. Opinions?

My point was transfluid is not a lifetime fluid, but people treat it as such without a second thought; but they get overly obsessive about oil.

Everyone is free to do what ever they want to do. I get frustrated when people make comments without looking at the science. Oil has come a long way over the years. Oil CAN last 25,000 miles on a single filter. That's a fact. And it will protect the engine just as good as conventional oil at 5,000 miles.

 

I don't think i would go 20k, maybe 10k.

 

Mobil 1 Extended Performance is rated to 15K and drivers have taken it there and reported no problems. As PackCon suggests, it would be a good idea to take the new oil to 15K and have it tested to see how it fares at that stage. I use Extended but change it at 10K. I had a 12K sample tested and oil was good for at least another 2K. Sample was from wife's Lexus and she drives 70/30 highway/city.

The small print for the 20K oil says it is not for severe service & off-road schedules; so, I would not run the full 20K in my truck which sees off-road excursions. I am willing to try 15K.

 

I have several thoughts
1. You should charge your battery on your phone. It is low
2. Your signal is quite weak on TMobile

 

My next oil change is in 5,000 miles (which is 3 months away for me). I plan on using this and testing at 10k. I'm going to try to just sample and not change at 10k.
I'm assuming not a good idea to take a sample from the filter as it wouldn't be an accurate representation of the circulating oil?

 

For what reasons would you be willing to go 10k and not 20k?

 

Apples-to-oranges. Over the road diesel engines are designed for this so their oil capacities are measured in gallons. I wouldn't use what Caterpillar recommends for their engines as part of a decision to extend beyond what Toyota recommends.

 

This has always baffled me, how they can make these claims about oil filters. How long a filter works is a function of the medium and surface area, so given some size and volume of debris circulating you filter it out until it clogs at which point the oil flow is impeded or it goes through the bypass.

The physical size of the filter can is roughly the same between the OEM Denso and these extend use filters so what is different to allow the longer use? Are they able to cram 4 times the amount of medium in the can or have they made it 1/4th as efficient at filtering? Or is it roughly the same filter that just spends most of its time flowing oil through the bypass?

It's possible that Denso makes their filters just good enough to last the 5K and there's some margin to be gained with a premium filter (although by most accounts the OEM filters are pretty decent) but I am just dubious that there's that much efficiency to be gained. Vehicles designed for very long intervals will run physically large filters and usually multiple ones.

I guess my point would be that deviating from baseline (e.g. Denso 90915-YZZD3 at 5K) means verifying them. People do oil analysis to test intervals so there's evidence one way or the other. Have people cut open these filters or test them at intervals to see if they are actually still working at 10K, 15K, 20K, etc? And what is the minimum size they are capable of catching if they haven't clogged at 20K?

I know there are people who do look into this but I'd like to know if anyone's tested the 20K life claim. I doubt I'll change my ways now but I am curious.

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/toyota-oil-filter-made-in-thailand-vs-the-competition.123608/

http://parts.olathetoyota.com/tacoma-oil-filter-comparison

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1627827&page=1

http://filtrationcomparisons.weebly.com/test-pictures-and-results.html

 

The assumption you are making is OEM filters are catching everything (or filling their full volume with contaminants). I think this is the flaw to your logic.

Only a lab could test if a filters capacity is met. You are talking about something at darn near a molecular level. This isnt something the average joe can do by cutting open the filter.

I think Amsoil recomends changing the filter half way through a 25k interval. So you have to look at the specific instructions for each oil too. The wide derivations in change intervals has to do with the oil itself more so than the filter. (Degredation of the oil being the main determiner of oil life, not comtaminants)

You can hook up some radical particle filters for your oil that aren't much bigger than OEM filters. You are over simplifying the molecular chemistry.

I think your oil would burn away to nothing before an oil filter would 100% clog. And that likely would be what has to happen. Wait till your engine spits out metal shards to clog the thing.

I would like to see what the rating system is for filters. With most things its usually a made up scale different from one brand to another.

Also, let us not forget, manufacturer requirments are done for two reasons:
1. To avoid lawsuits
2. To make the manufacturer money

I would not be shocked if OEM filters will get you to 15k miles but why would they recommend you buy 1 filter when they can sell you 3?

My guess would be, you never use a lower rated filter to its true capacity.

 

There is actually a huge difference between transmission oil and motor oil. The problem with motor oil that makes it important to change it more often, is contamination. Exposure to products of combustion.

Thing is, the oil also has to suspend a good deal of *ash*. That's the stuff that makes it turn black. Once the oil is suspending a certain amount of ash, you need to change it out -- get that ash out of the engine. If you don't, you end up with sludge.

The oil itself, I'm sure, will be absolutely fine for considerably longer than it is able to suspend the ash. But the ash all by itself, is reason enough to clean it out.

If you plan to do significantly extended OCI, then it is an absolute must to proceed with caution. Regular oil analysis should be done until you've established a record of how well that oil is lasting for that engine. I'd say send it in just before the manufacturer's regularly scheduled oil change is to happen, see what condition the oil is in and what the lab's recommendations are with respect to extended OCI, and go from there.

 

I've put roughly 7,000 miles on my Tacoma in the last year, mostly in city driving. I change the oil and filter twice a year regardless. All other fluids changed at maintenance times.

 

i got the wi-fi calling turned on

 

I guess I am the exception to the rule, but I put an average of 70k miles on a vehicle in a year I am doing the 10k changes with regular mobile 1 and a Toyota filter... I'm not taking chances on ANY other filters after seeing the filter thread.

 

True statement, but the average mechanic can't do oil analysis at home either which is why we send samples to Blackstone. The analysis can be done and I'm sure Toyota has done so to figure out how much filter vs time vs cost. I'm not saying it's the best, just saying it's the baseline. Perhaps the Denso filters to 10 micron and at 5K miles it's medium has reached 90% capacity. Just a starting point to say that a 20K filter has reached the same and it's due to x, y, z reasons.

There are several. I'm not an expert in the field, though, so I do honestly hope for more discussion.

ASTM D7898 (Standard Practice for Lubrication and Hydraulic Filter Debris Analysis)
ASTM D7919 (Standard Guide for Filter Debris Analysis)
ISO 4548 (Methods of test for full-flow lubricating oil filters for internal combustion engines)
ISO 16889 (multi-pass filter test)

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=330243

Indeed, the standard is a compromise of lots of things. Toyota never claims their filters can go to 15K AFAIK. It's also not a terribly expensive filter so more frequent replacement is figured in.

But since it's also Toyota who is responsible for the warranty and reputation of their vehicles they have a major stake in specifying components and practices that do well along with meeting liability and profit goals. They'll have tested the filter to know it continues to filter to a point, doesn't starve the lubrication system over an RPM range, at start-up, etc. I agree that it's not a simple question.

Like I say, it's not necessarily the best part at any cost but there is a whole lot of data that suggests that a $4 Denso at 5K intervals with brand name API SL or SG oil gets Toyota engines to very high mileages. There are obviously advantages to going above the minimum recommendations (I run synthetic oil). Just curious if anyone can point to oil filter testing to know more.

Major edit to add:
I'm also probably misunderstanding that the filter stays in place the whole 20K? Reading your Amsoil statement leads me to believe that you do change the filter within that period and if so I respectfully admit I'm in the wrong. I was thinking the filter is the same for the whole extended oil change period. That's part of the reason I don't push my oil beyond 5K, because I don't trust filters to last that long.

 

I replace the synthetic oil and filter I use every 10,000 miles. I'm at 336,000 now (approx. 30,000-40,000 a year). Back in my previous truck (2002 and 2006 Dakota, 4.7L V8, same amount and type of driving), I had extensive oil testing done while using AMSOIL products and found the life of the oil would never meet the 25K they advertised. I'm not dissing their product, I think they are great. Typically by 12K or 15K (can't remember now) the oil was not doing its job anymore, so on those trucks, I settled on 10K oil and filter changes.
On the Tacoma, I did similar testing with similar results so stuck with the same intervals. What's interesting isn't Toyota recommending 10K oil and filter changes now? The idiot light in mine always comes on every 5K, which was their recommendation back then.

Oh, I rotate my tires every 10,000 too. Get 90-100K per set.

 

for the new 3rd gens v6 is 10k oil change now. 5k tire and check overs.

 

Mobil 1 Rebate: https://apfco.com/secure/R8235W/

Whatever type of M1 you use, you can get $ 12 off 5 quarts. That means about 1/2 price at Walmart. Offer good until 5/31

 

I'll bite.. What thread regarding filters?

 

Yup. But that is with a diesel that cold starts and runs cold 1/50th as often as most of our trucks, does mostly highway miles, has an engine oil capacity of 10 to 15 gallons , and has a filtering system that puts the average run-of-the-mill sewage treatment plant to shame...

 

Have you guys tried Wal-Mart's oil-Supertec? I head it's made in the same factory as Mobil-1 just re-labeled.