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No More USN Chief's Initiation???

Discussion in 'Military' started by Sullyman, Jan 14, 2013.

  1. Jan 14, 2013 at 4:37 AM
    #1
    Sullyman

    Sullyman [OP] Crusty ole' conservative fart

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    Although I was Air Force, I went through USN Chief's initiation when I made MSgt. Back in 1998 it was 2+ months of "fun"...but when I got my anchors I was never more proud of anything I'd achieved in the service...Why??? Because I had to work harder for it than anything else.

    Today's Navy Times announces that the Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy (MCPON) is doing away with Chief's initiation. This is not a MAJOR surprise as Navy leadership has been chipping away at initiation little by little for years, but this errodes a centuries long tradition.

    This is outrageous...another attempt to tear down America by eliminating sources of pride.

    Thoughts?

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Jan 14, 2013 at 7:30 AM
    #2
    tacomathom

    tacomathom Well-Known Member

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    I earned my anchors by meeting all the qualifications for advancement, not by walking the plank while wearing a diaper with an olive stuck up my ass and frozen balut in my mouth. I went through it so the other Chiefs wouldn't think I was a pussy, not because it meant anything.
     
  3. Jan 15, 2013 at 2:36 PM
    #3
    Sullyman

    Sullyman [OP] Crusty ole' conservative fart

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    Haha - they got you with that olive thing? You must be the loner type...From my perspective...from a service that just gives you the chevrons once you meet all the quals....C.P.O. initiation does mean something...it is a bonding process and a source of pride that the USAF didn't offer. It provides a clearer distinction between Jr and Sr enlisted and lends to your credibility amongst your troops because they know you've gone through some sort of tempering process that they've only heard rumors of. C.P.O. Initiation was more than just meeting quals...but like all other sources of pride in this country....It must be abandoned if you hope to remove the national identity and get the folks to subscribe to a global governance...
     
  4. Jan 15, 2013 at 7:00 PM
    #4
    tacomathom

    tacomathom Well-Known Member

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    Ha Ha yourself. I was an active member of the Mess until the day I retired and still support the CPOA today. That's cute the Navy let you go through an initiation but I am a real Chief Petty Officer and will be 'till the day I die. I earned my anchors with hard work, knowledge, & service. I earned my credibility with my people by being the example of service before self. The frat-boy party called a CPO initiation had nothing to do with it. You wanted thoughts, well I think the CPO initiation has out lived it's usefulness. Unless you just want thoughts that agree with you?
     
  5. Jan 15, 2013 at 7:08 PM
    #5
    Brunes

    Brunes abides. Staff Member

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    I'm with Tom. Your rep with your junior sailors, airmen, soldiers and marines is set by your attitude and work ethic, not a ceremony.
    There are good and bad chiefs who have and haven't done Initiation...which means it's not necessary to do it to be good, nor will doing fix the bad. Plus as it becomes an institutionalized process, it becomes more onerous on those involved and then the folks who they work with have to pick up the slack.
    Is it fun?? Yeah-Hellz yeah....I had a great time sea lawyering and writing an essay about why Chiefs are like those big air bags stunt man use was EPIC...but is it vital? No way.
     
  6. Jan 15, 2013 at 7:45 PM
    #6
    Spitfire

    Spitfire Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad all First class petty officers will get trained year round under the new construct. Too many decent FCPOs were left on the sidelines while the selctees got all the training and attention. I also really like that MCPON stopped the ridiculous fundraising. Seriously, what the hell do you need to raise so much money for? Traditions always evolve, the existing Chiefs will still find ways to initiate new CPOs and make sure they understand the importance of the transition.
     
  7. Jan 15, 2013 at 9:35 PM
    #7
    puddle

    puddle Active Member

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    I did the whole initiation thing, Meh.. Do I think it should be abolished, No! Did I get anything out of it, No. It did not make me a better Chief, I took care of my Sailors long before the initiation, and as others have stated, I earned my Anchors by meeting all the qualifications. I did see some brothers that seemed to get off on the power trip, guess it was pay back time for getting their ass kicked all the time in High school. So why do I think it should stay, nothing more then tradition, we have lost so much over the years. Little things like now being able to wear a cover (Civies) at the E club in Yorktown and not having to by the Bar a round when caught. Or the sayings "You got to go out but you don't have to come back" or "So others may live" These were on every Small Boat Station walls. But I did make a Kick Ass Hat Box! and an OK charge book. I retired 05/01/11, after 24 days shy of 24 years, no regrets.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Jan 16, 2013 at 3:49 AM
    #8
    Sullyman

    Sullyman [OP] Crusty ole' conservative fart

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    Tom - I wasn't trying to solicite only opinions that I agreed with...Everyone's got their own...

    As far as real - vs - fake/honorary...I worked my way up to Sr. NCO and LED (not just participated) in the NAS Norfolk '98 slug class...I volunteered when no one else would step up...standing out in front of the group in a different color uniform drew its own kind of special heat...but I did the full initiation...I am a real C.P.O...

    I also find it interesting that the first coupla opinions I got back are Chiefs who didn't see the value in it when I, an outsider who was allowed to go through it...valued it as much as I did...

    Kris...that is a nice hat box!
     
  9. Jan 16, 2013 at 4:06 AM
    #9
    Brunes

    Brunes abides. Staff Member

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    How many times did you see it happen beyond your Indoc?
    Did you get to see how disruptive it can be to the day to day work flow?? Did you get any feedback from the junior enlisted about the effect of seeing the "silly" names and tasks that PCPOs engage in??

    And as far as valuing your Indoc...Is that it from a training standpoint or an emotional standpoint? To put it a different way-Did you gain knowledge that has helped you lead due to the Indoc or do you remember it fondly because it was a unique experience for you?
     
  10. Jan 16, 2013 at 4:16 AM
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    Slimwood Shady

    Slimwood Shady I love your mom!

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    I think I have to agree with Sully....being a Sr NCO in the Army we don'thave CPO initiations, but we did used to haze our promotees when they gotpinned. We would make them do PT in front of the formation while dumping mudand water and all kinds of stuff on them while making them recite theNCO/Soldiers Creed. Then they would get their ranks pounded into theirshoulders/chest. IMHO, after serving almost 14 yrs in the Army, I think theyENTIRE military is getting soft. Too much codling Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen,and Marines. When I first joined, nothing was negotiable, and the standardswere higher. I really think that the "old school" military needs tocome back. The overall discipline in the military is going way down hill, and Ido think it is because of traditions, customs and courtesies are going away.Leaders need to stop being soft and start to suck some shit up and stop blamingeverything on all the damn deployments. It is like people join the militarythey forget what the real reason we are needed is.

    I am a recruiter right now, and it is absolutely amazing when I hear whatthese lazy ass children of today think and say when you talk about hard work orstruggle....smh....what is this country coming to??

     
  11. Jan 16, 2013 at 4:21 AM
    #11
    Sgian

    Sgian The sherbet is fermenting........

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    I went through mine back in 04, such an unmitigated waste of time. I am in a slightly different community though.
    The CPO Indoc, once upon a time meant something. With as watered down as it has become I would say that it has lost its value. Then again, as Slimwood above me said, the entire military has become more and more PC.
     
  12. Jan 17, 2013 at 4:30 AM
    #12
    Sullyman

    Sullyman [OP] Crusty ole' conservative fart

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    Mark - my circumstance was a lil' different when I made Chief...there were no Jr. enlisted folks in the organization...it was pretty much 5's, 6's and above...Those that weren't doing silly tasks wished they were...so no real "disruption"....

    From a training standpoint, I've taken what I've learned in USN leadership training, merged that with what I've learned in USAF leadership training and my own common sense to form what I feel is my best of breed leadership style. I had been thrust into leadership positions early in my career when my leadership decided that I was the guy to handle all their "leadership challenges"...

    So much of my learning was from the "oh that's how the USN does it" perspective...I found it helpful especially since the last 13 years of my career was all joint assignments on other than USAF bases answering to other than USAF leadership.

    One of the biggest things I gleaned from it - besides the pride in having those anchors (after I was pinned, a day never went by where I didn't have them under a pocket flap on my uniform - I still carry my card) was the way I was treated by the rest of the Norfolk CPO community (vs other E7s)...It was worth it to have earned their respect...I think it helped me get things done during the rest of my career too....

    ...and I do remember it fondly...I'm one of those sick bastards that actually enjoys things like that (I had fun in basic training too - although I thought USAF basic was waaaaaaay to easy {I was an army brad who PT'd with my old man's unit as a kid})

    :oldglory:
     
  13. Jan 17, 2013 at 4:32 AM
    #13
    Sullyman

    Sullyman [OP] Crusty ole' conservative fart

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    It chokes me up thinkin' about it Slimwood...My boys have to grow up and have kids in it...SMH...
     
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