opinion: most cost effective off-road mod

lol mine are almost identical to those, only about 175 bucks cheaper.

 

i like square. easier to fit. . . . . even if i went up to 3/16" or 1/4" the radius on the corners would be pretty big. . . . . .

 

absolutely no need for any more than 1/8" unless you plan on absolutely beating on the thing. I've landed on mine hard enough to jar my back and they didn't move lol. I think they flex about 1/16 when hi lifting off them.

 

that is awesome forerunner. . . this truck is still somewhat new to me off pavement, and i still havent put decent tires on it, waiting for either my next planned wheeling trip or these to bald. needless to say i have been very cautious with it; it is my dd after all.

realized that sliders are just way too accessible for me NOT to do, and that small mistakes without can result in some f-ed up sheetmetal. . . gotta check the scrap rack for some tube. sure wish i had access to some exaust tube for that crossover

HEY! DOES ANYONE KNOW IF exaust tube and EMT conduit have the same O.D. measurements?????? i wonder if i could bend exhaust with big a conduit bender????

 

wow that sucks :/

nothing like a 900$ mistake to put things in perspective ouch

 

Round tubing is generally stronger. At least that's what we teach in my industry...

 

Sliders man, hands down. If you want to do any 4x4 type off roading, technical or crawling sliders are a must. Not only will they pay them selves off the first time you scrape them, but having that confident piece of mind knowing you can plow through something and not have to worry about massive body damage (with reason of course). Shit happens, and you might not notice a sharp rock on your passenger side if you cut a corner tight, you will be forever glad your slider saved your doors. Plus not being locked you need a little extra speed getting up something, and the skider is the key to being able to go faster up an obstacle to over come that lack of a locker and not need to worry about banging anything. You just tap the slider, bounce off and keep tapping that skinny pedal. There is my .02 at the best, first and most important off road mod you can get.

 

It's not.

Uh...not in sliders. All other things being equal (thickness of tube, mounting points, etc.) square sliders result in much more rigidity.

 

Perhaps you are correct. This is contrary to what they teach in modern steel fabrication and materials. Tubing has an unmatched resistance to moments (weight x distance) = a moment ...generally speaking. Square or angled steel is highly susceptible to racking, twisting, or traverse moments. Round tubing uses more steel to construct. It will weigh more than angled steel, but it will genrally withstand the destructive torsion and tension moments generated by 4x4 recreation and ship construction. I'm not sure why sliders would make a difference, and I am not sure what information you are basing you rigidity statement on, but mine is based upon an industry of steel construction. Where did you find the information on rigidity and sliders being the exeption to this?

 

Round tubing is stronger pound for pound. The problem with your entire logic here is that sliders are rarely built based on weight - they are built based on coverage area. Square tube is stronger because an equivalent length and width section of square tube with identical wall thickness will have more material in it to disperse forces compared to round of the same dimensions.

This can be countered with round, of course, by going to a thicker wall, and thus adding material. But again, if you use an equivalent amount of square tube at that wall thickness, it will have more material still.

So basically, it comes down to the fact that sliders need to be a certain length and width to mount on a vehicle, not a certain weight.

This article breaks it down pretty well, with some figures and examples for you:

http://mnhpva.org/tech/frame_tubes.html

 

The source is not reputable.We're the steels from the same factory, or even the same continent for that matter? This isn't mentioned. You will have to find a legitimate source, other than the eighth search item on google. Perhaps a well known university or bonified research institute. I was wondering how you came up with this article so quickly, then i searched steel tubing vs square steel and realized where you obtained your information. You still didn't explain why the exception is with sliders. And I already said that tubing requires more material, as you paraphrased from the article you obtained from a quick search on google. I don't understand your statement about length, weight and width etc... It's inconclusive.

The main purpose square steel is made is because it is cheaper. And easier to fabricate with. That is it. It has it's advantages as far as welding parts to it and it's ease in building construction, but round tubing, is indeed stronger and is the preferred application for installations for safety and just plain getting the job done. And it better be American steel, because that Chinese shit just don't cut it!
But let's face it, we are talking sliders here. Not the Queen Mary. As long as you are leaning your square sliders up on a rock right on the 90 degree angle, you should not jeopardize the integrity of the steel. Remember, square tubing is bent to shape, when round tubing is rolled and welded or pressed. And a weld is just as strong of not stronger than the steel itself if welding correctly!

 

Stiffness is dictated by I, the second moment of inertia. For round tube, pi/4*(outer rad^4-inner rad^4)=I. So for 1.75 OD .125 wall tube, I=.2119.

For square, we have (1/12)*bh^3 for the inner and outer. Just subtract the two to get a total I of .3598.

Bending stress is dictated by MC/I where M is the moment, C is the location at which you are finding stress. So the higher the I value, the lower the stress. Square obviously is stronger in this respect.

But it really doesn't matter, this is armor for a truck, not the space shuttle. Round and square both work just fine, I used square simply because it is much easier to work with when you don't have a bender.

 

This is irrelevant. The site I linked to was intended to illustrate the math. You can double check the equations in whatever textbook you like, then run the numbers determined for your preferred alloy of steel and see for yourself.

Also: "bona fide"

I want to be clear about this: That is not the original source of my information. That was a quick-to-find example to illustrate for you the point I was making.

What I am trying to explain to you is that you are right, tubing is the stronger structure when all other things are equal. But in the case of sliders, all other things are not equal.

Sliders are built to a certain size and shape to fit the vehicle they are built for. Because of this, and the differences in material content of square tube vs. round tube, square tube at this given size and shape contains more material than tube if the wall thickness is the same. THEREFORE, the square tube presents with greater rigidity (or stiffness) than its round counterpart in this situation. Moving to a thicker wall tube is often not done due to cost, weight concerns, etc.

Thanks for that. I have a basic "understanding" of the idea, but I am no materials engineer.

 

.

 

I get what you are saying about the truck being too fresh to burn rod on, but consider this: if you are going to be offroading the truck to the point where you actually need sliders, maybe she not too new to use weld-on mods rather than bolt-on. Honestly, bolt-on sliders are not the way to go. Consider the weight of your truck, balancing on hope that those bolts have enough sheer strength to withstand the bending moments created by crawling. I've seen the carnage, trust me it aint worth it!

IMO grinding would be more of a pain to remove the sliders rather than a quick bead, fill, grind and touch up with 1 step. But I wouldn't worry about that. Protect that truck with what she deserves. Weld it. Any old sliders will work. I won't get into the square vs round thing again, but look at what the pros are using, that should answer your question there.

I run the TG sliders, All Pro has those nice ones with the flare on the after end that I wish I would have purchased. Good luck!

 

If the warranty is your concern, I would think that drilling holes in the frame would void the warranty before doing something to it that could only strengthen it theoretically speaking. Drilling holes will only jeopardize the integrity of the frame. I would ask the dealership.

 

If they bolt into prexisting holes, then that would be the best option for you. You shouldn't assume they would say no about the welding option though. It wouldnt hurt to ask. It didn't affect my warranty, the factory care or the extended one I purchased from an outside source Also I spoke to an engineering instructor who is a materials engineer at a college I went to. This conversation came up about a year ago with the welding weakening your frame.... He says, in theory welding can weaken steel. But this job wouldn't come close to weakening your frame. Unless you are using a 500 amp welder or something.... I also asked another materials engineer, her name is Dr. Punglia, you can check up on me if you like. She laughed and told me I should know better than to come to her with this question. She told me to weld away. You would have to have the steel so hot for such an extended length of time to cause any metallurgy issues. She too mentioned drilling holes is not a good option, unless you are drilling to stop a crack. She told me you can find people on these sites all day long that will copy and paste crap from sites to prove their point, but if they don't have any first hand knowledge and proper education on the material, don't believe any of that crap.
I have never removed my sliders or needed to. Eventually you WILL want to weld them on. But like I said, pre-existing holes....ya bolts may be better for you if your going for looks, but I would never trust bolts vs weld. EVER!

 

i'm kinda suprized to see no one has said a locker. if you have 4x4 and happen to had a tire on front and one on back that come off the ground or lose traction you aint goin nowhere, whereas if u have a locker you atleast have a shot of gettin out. my truck is trd off road and came with locker so i don't know how much it would be to buy and install but 3 wheels are better than 2 in my opinion.

 

Yellow wire mod if your truck needs it. TRAC in 4LO.

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/technical-chat/51946-4low-trac.html