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Our 6 Cyl is supercharged in a lotus.

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016-2023)' started by Mattao, Aug 22, 2016.

  1. Aug 22, 2016 at 7:42 PM
    #21
    monkeyface

    monkeyface Douchebag, or just douche if we're friends

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    Maybe they should make the sweet 4.6l available for the Tacoma. Tacomas always get the least powerful engine in the lineup. It's a big seller but they will not give it the best engines in the lineup.
     
    smitty99 likes this.
  2. Aug 22, 2016 at 9:36 PM
    #22
    timothom

    timothom Well-Known Member

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    SweatyBiscuit and Torspd like this.
  3. Aug 23, 2016 at 5:27 AM
    #23
    Torspd

    Torspd Tor-nication

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  4. Aug 23, 2016 at 5:44 AM
    #24
    the phew

    the phew Well-Known Member

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    The funny thing is that these "luxury sports sedan engines" actually have a torque curve best suited for trucks. The 2L turbo in my 3-series makes peak torque at 1250 RPM! The 3.5L makes peak torque at 4600 RPM. Conversely, I actually think DI turbo engines are pretty dull from a sporting perspective (no top end, sound awful, turbo lag, etc), and much prefer a smooth, high-revving n/a engine for blasting down curvy roads.
     
  5. Aug 23, 2016 at 8:17 AM
    #25
    Construct

    Construct Well-Known Member

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    No BMW turbo engine makes peak torque at 1250RPM. That's just above idle, and below where most dyno pulls even start.

    The N20 (328i motor) torque peak appears to be right around 4400RPM on Inside Line's dyno test: http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/track-tests/2012-bmw-328i-dyno-tested.html

    The torque falls off steeply past 5000RPM, which indicates the turbo is running out of airflow. That's the tradeoff of a small, fast-spooling turbo: Torque comes on early, but falls off sooner.

    Regardless, the obsession with the 3.5L Tacoma's later torque peak is completely overblown. The engine has plenty of torque down low and a relatively flat torque curve. See the dyno chart here: https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/2016-tacoma-dyno-time.410608/page-5

    Note that the Torque scale on the left doesn't start at 0. It has a narrow range because the torque curve is so flat to begin with. Yes, there is a peak at 4200RPM, but do you really believe that you'll notice the difference between that 230 ft-lb at 4200RPM and the 225 ft-lb at 2800RPM? Or the 210 ft-lb at 2000RPM?

    Discussing torque peaks for sports cars makes sense because they tend to have narrower powerbands. The Tacoma engine makes between 200 ft-lb and 230 ft-lb from 2000RPM (where the chart starts) to 6000RPM. In other words, the "peak" doesn't mean much of anything here. But if you do want to split hairs, the Tacoma torque peak is just about at the same spot as the torque peak on your N20-powered BMW.
     
  6. Aug 23, 2016 at 9:24 AM
    #26
    BeaverNation

    BeaverNation Well-Known Member

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    Yeah everyone's infatuation with lack of low end torque has more to do with the modern throttle programming as opposed to the engines ability to create torque down low. It's pretty obvious when you can pull any hill in the manual at 2000 rpms.
     
    TacoJonn likes this.
  7. Aug 23, 2016 at 9:26 AM
    #27
    the phew

    the phew Well-Known Member

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    BMW rates the N20 as follows:

    "350 Nm (258 lb·ft) at 1,250-4,800 rpm"

    So it makes its rated torque at 1250 RPM. Dyno plots show that it happens to produce even more torque at higher RPMs, but that's just because all German automakers under-rate their engines (for tax/insurance reasons I think?).

    Most dyno runs start at 2k-2.5k RPM because eddy current and water brake systems can't dissipate enough power at lower RPMs. You'll also notice that most dyno torque curves get wonky below 2.5krpm, so it's safe to assume there are measurement accuracy errors at low RPMs as well (and/or torque converter/clutch slip issues at play).

    The N20 and 2GR-FKS have VERY similar torque curves above 2.5krpm, which isn't surprising since a 2L running 1.15 bar of boost and a n/a 3.5L are pretty equivalent at higher RPMs. Dyno curves don't show what's happening below this RPM, but that's where the big differences are. The N20 will accelerate from 1250 RPM without complaint, where an n/a engine would just lug.

    So let's say the Taco had a 2.0t instead of the n/a V6:
    -Rated torque could be achieved 3000+ RPM lower (1250 RPM vs 4600 RPM)
    -Peak power would be about the same (~240 HP to the wheels) and occur at about the same RPM (~5000 RPM)
    -Fuel economy would be significantly better
     
  8. Aug 23, 2016 at 10:00 AM
    #28
    TacoJonn

    TacoJonn Well-Known Member

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    The 4.3:1 gears might have something to do with this too.
     

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