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Pad on mat.. or mat on pad?

Discussion in 'Audio & Video' started by TSki, Jun 24, 2017.

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Mat as bottom layer or pad as bottom layer?

  1. Mat

    4 vote(s)
    100.0%
  2. Pad

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Jun 24, 2017 at 9:22 AM
    #1
    TSki

    TSki [OP] Well-Known Member

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    So I got the hookup from a buddy on the following:

    Noice Liner 157 Mil Car Heat Insulation Pad

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00URV8MFC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    and:

    Noico 80 Mil Car insulation mat

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BKKZ1AM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    I am ending up with about a 100 square feet of each... (overkill I know).

    My plan is to rip everything out, and cover everything. I see mixed information online.. mat vs pad as far as what should be put down first. Any opinions on the matter?
     
  2. Jun 24, 2017 at 10:12 AM
    #2
    mako fisher

    mako fisher Well-Known Member

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    You probably already saw this, but this is what the manufacturer recommends.

    Noico Liner makes your car quite! Material copes with noise suppression. But at the same time, the material is not a complete substitute for butyl based sound deadening. The most effective way to treat your car is: 1) place the butyl based material as a first layer (about 60 % of the total elimination of sound and vibration), 2) install the waterproof foam heat insulation Noico Liner as a second layer (40 % of the total elimination of noise insulation).
     
  3. Jun 24, 2017 at 10:31 AM
    #3
    TSki

    TSki [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I did see that! But there are some rather vocal opponents of this method, who swear by reversing the order. The claim is that the metal liner on the butyl based material operates better when it is not connected to the metal of the truck. Honestly, I know nothing about this stuff. I got a good deal on the material, so I am going for it... not even upgrading the stock speakers when I do it.
     
  4. Jun 24, 2017 at 10:44 AM
    #4
    mako fisher

    mako fisher Well-Known Member

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    Makes more sense to me to put foam layer down first for decoupling effect. Do you know if they ever resolved the issue of Noico liner adhesive breaking down in the heat?
     
  5. Jun 24, 2017 at 10:49 AM
    #5
    TSki

    TSki [OP] Well-Known Member

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    From what i have read online, they fixed the issues of the materials adhesive essentially melting in the heat. Lets hope for the best!
     
  6. Jun 25, 2017 at 9:02 AM
    #6
    TSki

    TSki [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Another question.. Since I am going to the trouble of padding/matting everything.. do I need to uprgrade speakers? I am not an audiophile and have never felt disapointed with my non jbl stock speakers... I just wonder if I shouldn't do it while I am in there.
     
  7. Jun 30, 2017 at 8:08 PM
    #7
    SgtAJV

    SgtAJV Well-Known Member

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    Hell yes. You don't have to be an audiophile to appreciate crisp, clean performances of your favorite tracks. $.02
     
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  8. Jul 1, 2017 at 8:42 PM
    #8
    Bajatacoma

    Bajatacoma Well-Known Member

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    Go ahead and order some speakers- once you see how crappy the factory speakers are you'll see where Toyota saved themselves money.
     
  9. Jul 1, 2017 at 10:20 PM
    #9
    TSki

    TSki [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I'm trying to save up for a rooftop solar setup, so not wanting to replace anything now. I will probably go back in there down the road with a plug and play system and an amp that fits behind the head unit
     
  10. Jul 2, 2017 at 6:13 AM
    #10
    rob feature

    rob feature Tacos!

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    Is this Noico stuff only Butyl? Is there a constraining layer? Because it's pretty much useless as a damper without one. Seems like I also heard of low heat tolerance with this stuff. I'd RUN from anything with low heat tolerance. Much more on that here.

    At any rate, you want 3 things to do this right - generally in this order. 1) a constrained-layer damper, 2) Mass Loaded Vinyl, 3) decoupling/insulating foam.

    The damper lowers the resonant frequency of the panels to which it is attached (essentially squishes vibrations). This is your first layer and is attached to any panel which may resonate. 100% coverage isn't typically necessary, but with inferior materials that may be a good strategy. I prefer SDS CLD Tiles here.

    The Mass Loaded Vinyl (MLV) serves as a barrier and keeps noise out. It also acts somewhat as a thermal barrier as 100% coverage is the goal here. SDS again sells great material for this, but shipping can be a bear. Instead I've used TM Soundproofing for this as they ship for free and sell similar virgin material (avoid recycled here). 1 lb/sq foot is what you want.

    The decoupling/insulating foam should be of the closed-cell variety so that it won't absorb moisture. 100% coverage here is a good idea too as this will be your best thermal barrier. It will also block high frequencies. For this I use Foam by Mail. I have both 1/8" and 1/16" neoprene sheets here for this.

    Lots of vendors out there & lots of junk & lots of bad information. This is one place where you really have to do some work to separate the good from the bad. The big thing to look for is inferior butyl, as it will melt all in your truck and you will hate life. But the other materials matter also. Inferior MLV for instance can let of gases & stink. Or worse. Some dampers just don't work. etc etc etc. Since this is a difficult and dirty job - maybe do your homework up front & get it right the first time.
     
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  11. Jul 2, 2017 at 6:32 AM
    #11
    rob feature

    rob feature Tacos!

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    Being louder about it doesn't make it true. Butyl-based dampers MUST make contact with the material they're affecting. That's the ONLY way it will work. Now the constraining layer (metal part of the damper - usually aluminum) doesn't need to come into contact with the affected material - in fact that could actually cause noise. That idea is spot on.

    Reversing the order of application is silly though. Your panels need damping. Then you block the outside noise. Then you decouple to eliminate vibrations which would be caused by the application of the 1st 2 layers. You may need multiple layers of foam, as on both sides of MLV in doors to decouple from both the inner skin and door card. But doing it in reverse order is a waste of time & effort.
     
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  12. Jul 2, 2017 at 6:34 AM
    #12
    TSki

    TSki [OP] Well-Known Member

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    yep, what I found online ended up leading me to go this path as well. Butyl went down first, and then the pad. Won't be doing MLV at this time though, maybe I will do that down the road if I ever upgrade the stock speakers.
     
  13. Jul 2, 2017 at 7:39 AM
    #13
    Bajatacoma

    Bajatacoma Well-Known Member

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    If you can swing it I'd go ahead and do the speakers while you have the panels off. The plastic clips seem to get more brittle over time and Toyota wants a lot for them (for such a small piece of plastic and my local dealer always seems to be out of at least one of the styles when I've called). You don't have to spend a fortune to get a good pair of speakers and you'll be surprised how much better they sound. The factory speakers in my '05 were thin paper cones with magnets maybe the size of two Coke bottle caps.
     
  14. Jul 2, 2017 at 7:50 AM
    #14
    TSki

    TSki [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Man.. Maybe I should put off doing the doors until I can get some speakers in.. decisions decisions..
     
  15. Jul 2, 2017 at 9:55 AM
    #15
    rob feature

    rob feature Tacos!

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    FWIW you can find panel clips at some hardware stores. I've even seen 'em at Home Depot.

    And those magnets that everyone likes to complain about - they're neodymium - much stronger than the ferrite that most manufacturers use and for the intended purpose a superior material.
     
  16. Jul 2, 2017 at 4:04 PM
    #16
    mako fisher

    mako fisher Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the heads-up on the SDS website. A wealth of info there in the "how-to" section.
     

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