Six speed manual injustice, my long winded rant starts here:

Might wanna try heel to toe rev matchin to solve that problem, should solve your problems once you get used to it. Though thats from a car stand point, so may be trickier in a truck, I wouldn't think so but never know.


Seems like there's more bs in this thread about people talking about how awesome and great shifters they are then actually addressing the problem at hand....

Its pretty much undeniable that the 6 speed seems to have issues with the rev hang, how much of an issue depends on the person, some will be able to adjust for it, others it will aggravate them to no end it seems.

I think the point is that you shouldn't have to adjust to it or compensate for the way it drives in the first place, and Toyota needs to take on the problem. I understand its a truck and be prepared for it to drive as such, but the rev hang strikes me as wrong.

I think the issues of too much torque and light rear end that people were talking about is more of a comes with the territory of driving a truck type deal. They definetly could improve it no doubt, but I don't see it being such a negative impact on the quality of driving/owning a Tacoma as much as the 6 speed's rev hang issues.

My fear is that this has been going on for so many years and not a single ECU solution (assuming it can be fixed with an ECU flash)has been found by one of these shops that do this work out there? It obviously is a large enough issue to get the attention.

So can anyone say more for sure that is the ECU? Or any other ideas? No comments on the fly wheel bit or anything else to offer up?

 

The torque doesn't bother me as much and is easier to solve with throttle modulation and tire selection. The decell Ramp time and compression braking fuel map is IMHO very much a software variable in my expirience with snowcat repairs these software maps are all very adjustable with the right access to the point where a novice can really screw it up. (ask me how I turned a brand new Snowcat into a 16,000 lb paper weight until the ECU could make a round trip to Detroit Mi)

Gadget at URD suggested to me that for a Toyota breaking into the code is a significant investment and is not easy. I think things like ramp times are core components in the program that can't be addressed by overlaying a device that tricks the ECU into doing what's desired as most tech available seems to do to coax more power out of a given engine. We want the thing to essentially make the engine run differently. Now don't go and flame the hell out of me because I'm not intimate with the different subtlties of what is available out there, but one tuner phillosophy I've seen that might work in principal is that of the Power Commander III, that is available for my VFR bike. It gets put in AFTER the ECU on the output side of the system before the injectors and it takes the outputs from the ECU and treats them as inputs and them it uses it's software to feed your map to the injectors (more or less)...Plug program and play.

I wish.

 

Seems like there's more bs in this thread about people talking about how awesome and great shifters they are then actually addressing the problem at hand....

Its pretty much undeniable that the 6 speed seems to have issues with the rev hang, how much of an issue depends on the person, some will be able to adjust for it, others it will aggravate them to no end it seems.

I think the point is that you shouldn't have to adjust to it or compensate for the way it drives in the first place, and Toyota needs to take on the problem. I understand its a truck and be prepared for it to drive as such, but the rev hang strikes me as wrong.

I think the issues of too much torque and light rear end that people were talking about is more of a comes with the territory of driving a truck type deal. They definetly could improve it no doubt, but I don't see it being such a negative impact on the quality of driving/owning a Tacoma as much as the 6 speed's rev hang issues.


^^^^^^^^^Took the words right out of my mouth.

 

the reason people are talking about how great of a shifter/driver they are is because they are trying to figure out why they don't have a problem with the manual or driving the truck, compared to the people in here who seem to have such a problem and can't get over it. that is ok to have a problem, nobody is saying you aren't, but you can't assume that EVERYONE is having the same trouble, even though they have the same truck.

my truck drives fine though. every vehicle i've had has little nuances. my mazdaspeed3 had a rubbery, somewhat indirect shift feel compared to linkage shifted cars. and the 3rd gear throw was slightly longer than the rest, which was weird. my wife's Si, another DBW car, has rev hang, albeit not as prominent as the toyota and let's not talk about the defective 3rd gear set that is so infamous in the 8th gen civic 6-speed. my truck has the rev hang, but honestly i have not noticed it since around the first week or two of owning the truck. it never really made me drive differently or cause a problem. maybe i thought it might when i first noticed it, but in reality, it never did. so going back to what you've said about people claiming how good they are instead of discussing the issue, if the truck is such a problem, but i'm not seeing it, is my truck different than yours? or am i just a better driver? i'm being serious. what am i supposed to say? the truck isn't an issue. i nit-picked in my JD power survey and told them about the rev hang, but it wasn't a pressing issue and in fact seemed less important than the fact that my lumbar support keeps "going down".

and this too much torque and/or light rear end thing...another "issue" i've never seen, and i've dogged my truck several times from first gear up.

i have a question - do the x-runners have the rev hang, starting from whatever year they began issuing 6-speeds in those trucks?

 

When i first bought my 07 taco 5 speed, i babied it. Kept the RPM's low (Below 3k) and it always shifted a bit rough. After a couple years i've gotten into performence and now run the RPM's much higher (keep them between 3 and 5k) and the shifting is now perfectly smooth. I haven't noticed the rev hang since i started running higher RPM's. It's almost like the truck was made for running high RPM's.

 

The rev hang is more apprent on the V6. I agree that my trouble shifting into second goes away when I rev to almost 3k to shift, it glides right in. Lower then that and I either get tint grind sometimes or hard to shift into it. Every other gear can shift at 2k no problem, so I'm still getting used to it after 15,000 miles. Also gets better when it warms up but that is to be expected.

 

Just remembered of the 3 times I put a new Transmission in my buddy's B13 SE-R ('90-'93 Sentra SE-R). Atleast we don't have 5th gear popout Imagine having to drive in 4th gear on the highway because your tranny won't stay in 5th gear.

I was a valet back in college and I can tell you that EVERY manual transmission car drives differently and take a little getting used to the nuances.

My 5spd accord I had drove differently than my sisters '00 Civic she has, The '00 Civic 5spd drives differently than my other sister's '01 Civic 5spd. My dad used to have an '02 VW Passat 1.8T 5spd and it drove completely different from my accord. All clutches engage differently and shift throws are different. Some vehicles have a lower torque curve than others so they require less gas pedal input to get the vehicle moving.

My buddy's '97 4runner 5spd drives way different than my truck does.

 

Well right there you admit your truck has the rev hang, and even put in the survey, so you can't say it doesn't exist, you and almost everyone here has posted that they notice some sort of rev hang. So your truck has it, just like everyone's truck.

And part two of that is it didn't really affect you, which I also stated in my post. Doesn't mean shit about "driving skilll" because shifting is a very small part of driving but whatever.

The issue at hand would be how much of an impact this issue causes on driving and owning the vehicle. You've learned to deal with it, I've gotten better in just a few days of driving it, and seems most other people can live, albeit somewhat aggravating.

Basically what it comes down to is if you drive comparable types of trucks and 6 speed manuals they don't have rev hang. The 6 speed on our Tacomas does. The other trucks all have their own issues I'm sure, and who knows they're better or worse. But I personally believe that Toyota would have sold a lot more manuals, and perhaps even more Tacomas if they got rid of this rev hang issue. Everyone has noticed it, even the "god of shifting and adapting" have admitted they noticed it, save for two or three. Hopefully Toyota will fix it on the new model, because that's refinement and what leads to a better truck. Because if there wasn't rev hang on our trucks, we'd all wouldn't be spending on time here, and it'd be one less issue to worry about.

I like my truck and wouldn't trade it for anything else competing with it, but I would also be a lot happier with it if it didn't have rev hang. So you can look for a solution fix your lumbar support, and I'll continue to look for a solution to the rev hang in my truck.

 

RPM hang...affected my old Evo VIII RS, MKV Golf R32 (had it really bad) and from what I noticed when test driving '10 and '11 STi's same thing. All comes down to when you come off the throttle there is a hesitation in the throttle body closing, so it seems to still accelerate. If the Tacoma had a solid performance tuning community like the above cars have then it would be sorted out at the user level with open source tuning and the reputable tuners would also have flashes for purchase.

I've owned a bunch of different manual sport cars, a 90's pickup and the Tacoma isn't as bad as it people are making it out to be. Bottom line if your not willing to sacrifice a little drive-ability, and deal with a few quirks from time to time then get the auto.

The issues with the TOB and actual clutch operation can be possibly be fixed with the kit from: http://www.pdmtsk.com/home.html

 

I have the 05 6 speed and I agree that I had to relearn manual transmission shifting.

1st-What I found is that this transmission has a similar shifting as the old military M35/M109 deuce-n-half in the fact that when you down shift try to avoid going all the way to 1st. As long as your truck has a slight coast 2nd is more than enough and no bucking.

2nd-As for relearning normal shift with a set RPM. My 94 Toyota pickup 4cyl 5 speed had a normal shift RPM of about 2100-2200 and that was smooth. As for my 05 6 speed I found that it has a normal shift RPM of about 1500-1600.

3rd-If you really want to find your manual transm sweet spot try shifting without using the clutch. No, I'm not crazy. All transmissions have a natural synchronized shift point between gears.

Shifting up(easy for me)(with a moderate acceleration rate)= 1st to 2nd RPM reaches @1600 put slight tension on the shifter back off the gas and the shifter should feel as if it fell out of gear. This is the natural sweet spot. No jump, pop or grind. Now moving to the next higher gear your RPMs will drop to about 1100-1200. Steady the gas with your foot and slip into the next higher gear. If you miss, the gears will grind and you will have to adjust your RPM till you find it. (if all else fails use the clutch)
Now as you progress to each higher gear the shifting RPM will raise about 100-200 as well as broadening the sweet spot.

Shifting down(not so easy for me)(again with a moderate deceleration rate)= simply reverse your RPMs. Say from 4th to 3rd lower your RPM to @1100 put slight tension on the shifter back off the gas and the shifter should feel as if it fell out of gear. This is the natural sweet spot. Now moving to down to the next gear your RPMs need to rise to about 1800-1900. Steady the gas with your foot and slip into the next lower gear. Again, if you miss, the gears will grind so adjust your RPM till you find the sweet spot.

Keep in mind from a stopped position the clutch is needed to match the engine RPM to a stagnate transmission, and this does take practice.

I shift all the time without my clutch and found smoother shifting as well as a longer life for my clutch and pressure plate. This also trained me to be more conservative in my driving which saves gas. (no gunning of the line or driving like a mad man.)

 

Good write-up... ^^^x2

 

The only thing that bothers me is the RPM hang in first gear while pulling my boat up the ramp. It's the only time it bothers me. I thought it was me at first. I have driven a variety of manuals and owned a few different ones. It was tricky to learn how to find that perfect "sweet spot" in the clutch to get my boat up the ramp. My dad said the same thing along with a few buddies of mine who have pulled a boat out with my truck.

 

How come you never see posts from auto guys wishing they'd gotten the manual?

 

I don't like the $3000-$4000 cost of changing out the auto trans where in the manual the only problem is the clutch and thats around $500 to replace.
I don't like the way the auto in the Tacoma constantly hunts for the right gear
I like the manual cause of better power.
I don't like the new engineering of the autos and the lock up converters.
I like the manual better in winter driving conditions
I use my manual as an excuse from lending out my truck to family and friends cause they can't drive a manual.
Women are impressed with men that drive manuals

 

I am curious about the point you made in your OP... why wouldn't our engines suffer from the same hang as the autos?

It would be nice if the RPMs dropped like they do in normal manuals.

 

I feel like my truck idles to high. I think this is because of the 6 speed. But I don't know why. Also I think my gas mileage in the city should be better. But I guess the problem is with the stick I tend to rev the engine up to high between shifts. I usually shift from second to sixth.

 

So.. I tried shifting at around 2,500 - 3,000 RPM on the way in to work today.. and whoever said it earlier in the thread is spot on, the shift was perfectly smooth, and "felt" like it was the right place to shift.

 

I thought so too but in a power slide the engine keeps power on for 1.5-2.0 seconds when you might not want it. Made my situation worse because it didn't respond to what I wanted. It isn't "intuitive"

 

For my 5spd it works well for shifting out of first to second. Every other gear I can do 2k shifts no problem. 2nd gear has always been notchy and stiff since I drove it off the lot new. I can't speak for the 6, but glad to hear.

Don't be starting threads complaining about mpg now. I do approve telling people that complain about not getting 20mpg in the V6 that you do 3k rpm shifts and get 21mpg though. Stir the pot a little.......

 

Um you talkin' to me?
If so... our engines do suffer exactly the same hang an the autos and that is the problem. The Engine Map is optomised for the autos and they even provided at least one (maybe two?) transmission re-flashes to refine the shift points of the auto to "optomise it." Really Toyota is it too much to ask for the an engine flash for the manuals?? The reason it works so well is the torque converter and how it slips; these little quirks are either hidden by it or the quirks are advantageous to it. autos hunting for the right gear i think was addressed by these re-flashes.

More than anything I'm peeved at the BS they tell you to get rid of you.