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Staging...

Discussion in 'Audio & Video' started by David McLaurin, Jul 23, 2008.

  1. Jul 23, 2008 at 4:58 PM
    #1
    David McLaurin

    David McLaurin [OP] Member

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    Houston
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    LOTS of stereo
    I know I'll get a lot of flak from the folks who know audio, but this is getting annoying.

    First off, I have 2 separate component sets (another thing the big audio ppl say is bad, they all like one comp set and then only mid-ranges in the back with the subs) on my 08' Tacoma. They are both focal 165K2P sets and sound great.

    I can't seem to get my staging correct. There is far too much midrange unless I really crank down the midrange frequencies (I mean really crank down). My front tweeters are not at the greatest angle so a bit of the treble gets canceled in front. There is a button on my highs amp (Precision Power PCX480) which uses the front speaker inputs as the front and rear both. When pushing this button it makes music sound alot better at normal EQ settings. I understand that the four separate channels are needed for DVD playback but, if it doesn't sound as good, why use it in music?

    Am I breaking some cardinal rule by only using 2 channels for music? Has anyone else had this problem?
     
  2. Jul 23, 2008 at 6:21 PM
    #2
    atsaubrey

    atsaubrey Dealer/Sales Rep for Sundown Audio.

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    Wow you confused me on that. there is no reason to use rear speakers in a vehicle unless you are doing true surround. yes there is a "theory" aout rear fill being able to lift stages and what not but I have yet to hear this theory. Sorry you sonfused me on that, my Taco with a simple system images dead center and sounds great with DVD video on movies (although) I removed the video portion.
     
  3. Jul 23, 2008 at 7:46 PM
    #3
    sooner07

    sooner07 1/2 man 1/2 amazing

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    I too am confused with your intermingled question and advice.

    The last part of the question is clear. No, you are actually going by the standard rule by only using 2 channels. Typically music is recorded in stereo, meaning two discrete channels. This is the big reason that most people that are trying to get an accurate sound stage for music listening only use two channels.

    Rear fill can help to raise the stage up if you are using kickpods (down on the floorboard) but adjusting the angle and position of the tweeters can help just the same in most applications.

    Four channels is not needed for DVD playback. It is particularly benificial of surround sound, but I am unsure if that is what you are trying to do.

    Back to the "cardinal rule" comment. To me there is only one "cardinal rule" and that is as long as it sounds good to the main listener (usually me in my installs) then I don't give a crap what anyone else thinks. So, as what ever method makes it sound good to you in your taco, then that is how it should be done.
     
  4. Jul 24, 2008 at 7:09 AM
    #4
    mjp2

    mjp2 Living vicariously though myself Moderator

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    How are you running the signal into the amp, and how are you getting that signal? From the description of the problem I'd guess that you're running the speaker wires through a low-to-high impedance converter and plugging the RCA outputs of that into the amp.

    You probably have at least one set of +/- wires crossed. The out-of-phase signal coming out of the speakers will cancel out the sound. Happened when I first set up my system too. :eek:
     
  5. Jul 24, 2008 at 12:32 PM
    #5
    Mr Marv

    Mr Marv 1-831-383-0308 Vendor

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    I'd bet on that if he is using an LOC :) or he could have one of the RCA's switched at the amp so when in 4 channel mode one of the right speakers is actually playing the left signal (and vice versa) but when in 2 channel mode each side front/rear is playing the same signal as they should be. :)

    It's all about personal preference so if you want to use rear component speakers who cares what others think. In any case if you are playing a 2 channel stereo recording it doesn't matter if you use the 2 channel input or the 4 channel input on the amp as the left front/rear will still be getting the same signal and the right front/rear will still be getting the same signal (as long as the input on one set of channels is not reversed when in 4 channel mode as mentioned). As far as "too much midrange" have you tried setting the tweeter level higher?
     
  6. Jul 24, 2008 at 1:15 PM
    #6
    David McLaurin

    David McLaurin [OP] Member

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    I don't have Low-to-high impedance deal between the HU and amp.

    To get this out of the way I had an car audio place run all my wiring (I'm very busy with work lately) and have since had to re-wire much of it myself. I also had to reinstall my HU as they did that incorrectly (well, not incorrectly but dirty) too. It turns out that they didn't install the door tweeters correctly either. I heard something rattling in my door so I took off the door panel to check it out. The lack of high frequencies up front was due to them mounting the tweeter waaay to far in (towards the outside of the door). I was forced to go to home depot and buy a couple of brackets which I bent up and used as a mounting brackets for he tweeters.


    I decided to go with 2ch mode all the time (even with movies). I couldn't be happier with how the music sounds.
     
  7. Jul 30, 2008 at 12:03 AM
    #7
    lineberw

    lineberw Well-Known Member

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    I have finally got someone whom understands my problem. I have an 2007 Access cab and was in the same problem. I had two JL 12w3's, a JL 500/1, and my 6.5" XR Components just didn't keep up nor sound right. I'm hoping I solved this problem. I'm reinstalling my stereo today with two sets of C5 6.5"s.

    Hopefully this will solve my problem. Also putting 3 W3's in the back in an enclosure kinda like yours. I would love to see how your components are mounted to see totally your hole set up.

    Post some more pics and email me.

    Thanks,
    Wes

    screen name lineberw
     
  8. Jul 30, 2008 at 7:48 AM
    #8
    David McLaurin

    David McLaurin [OP] Member

    Joined:
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    Member:
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    Messages:
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    Houston
    Vehicle:
    '08 Tacoma Sport TRD
    LOTS of stereo
    I'll post some pics of the components next time my panels are off. I'm not really having trouble matching my bass. I do kind of notice that these Focal 165kF component sets sound great but they put out a little too much "something". Yea, you read that right, they are a bit too bright at loud volumes. The midrange / low mids don't sound very natural. It's just a matter of tuning I think (and hope). I'm really not used to the acoustics in this truck so it's hard for me to tell if it's an amp clipping or just a little too much mids (of which I haven't been able to narrow down a set of frequencies that fix it). I'm leaning more on the tuning thing because, even at low volumes it kinda sets an uncomfortable feeling in the ear.

    All the speakers are new, the amp is about 3-4 years old.
     
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