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Switching to synthetic oil

Discussion in '4 Cylinder' started by Corey08cummins, Feb 7, 2017.

  1. Feb 7, 2017 at 7:21 PM
    #1
    Corey08cummins

    Corey08cummins [OP] Member

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    Thinking about switching to synthetic oil in my 05 RC 4 banger when it gets back from my dealer. (Fixing oil leaks) the truck has 135,000 miles on it reckon there is any chance in damaging anything by switching? Used to hear bad stuff before but not so much anymore.
     
  2. Feb 7, 2017 at 8:06 PM
    #2
    TRVLR500

    TRVLR500 Well-Known Member

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    Change away. My 2004 RC 4X4 had 119,000 on it when I bought it. I immediately went to Mobil 1 5-30 and then switched over to Amsoil Signature 10-30 which I am still using currently. I bought mine from my dad and he changed the oil and filter every 3000 miles like clockwork with Pennzoil dino.The only problem you could have with switching from a dino to a synthetic is if the previous owner neglected it and ran the dino too long. In that case there "could" be sludge plugging up what would otherwise be an oil leak and the synthetic would clean everything out and you'd get a leak. You are already having leaks fixed so I wouldn't worry about it and the Japs are so good at casting and machining leakage is usually pretty rare.

    Synthetics are clearly superior in every way to a dino but you have to leave them in there long enough for them to pay for themselves. I'm going 7500 miles between changes and Blackstone labs said the oil was in such good shape I could add another 2000 miles to the interval. I'm sticking with 7500 right now though. Amsoil Signature can go well over 10,000 but I just don't have the balls to try it no matter what the oil analysis says. Synthetics really shine where it is really hot or really cold. I can get away with the 10-30 Amsoil where I live only because it's a 100% pure, true synthetic with group IV and group V basestocks. Mobil 1, for example is not a 100% pure synthetic. It's a blend with group III and group IV basestocks. Never the less, Mobil 1 is some really good stuff and so is Pennzoil's synthetic (Pennzoil Platinum) which they advertise as being 100% synthetic I'd never go 7500 miles on an oil change with dino, although many do, and I wouldn't try to run a 10-30 when it's 15 below zero like I do with the Amsoil. I does turn over a lot slower at low temps than with a 5-30 which is recommended but I have my reasons for using the 10-30.

    If you do make the switch I'd run the synthetic at the normal intervals for a few changes because if your engine had dino in it for 135,000 miles the sythetic is going to really clean the engine out. After a few oil and filter changes at the normal intervals then you can stretch the intervals out. Oil analysis really helps with how long you can stretch them. Once you switch and get all the sludge, if there is any, out you may notice your oil getting a reddish tint to it. That's the varnish that's getting cleaned out. Any sludge will just turn the oil black. Varnish really doesn't hurt anything except maybe in extreme cases but it's still nice to see it getting cleaned out of there.

    Since my dad took such good care of it since it was new and I am running synthetic I can still easily read the letters and markings on the dipstick right through the oil at 7500 miles. I may try 10,000 miles in the future and see what the analysis says.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
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  3. Feb 9, 2017 at 12:47 PM
    #3
    DGXR

    DGXR Well-Known Member

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    I switched my 2006 2.7 to synthetic at 120,000 miles. Now at 131,000 with no issues of any kind... no leaks or anything, it's all good. Go for it.

    The basic differences between conventional and synthetic are:
    Synthetic resists thermal breakdown and shearing forces better than conventional.
    Synthetic flows better than conventional at very low temps.
    Synthetic maintains a more stable viscosity at very high and low temps.
    And TRVLR500 is right, the definition of what is a "synthetic" oil has changed over the past 10 years. Most national brands are not true synthetic but they are better than conventional. 5-quart jugs of Mobil 1 SAE 5w30 are $23 at WalMart, that's less than $5 per quart. True synthetics are expensive -- here are some prices for single quarts of SAE 5w30: AMSOIL $12, Royal Purple $10, Red Line $17.

    I don't want to open the can of worms so I will stop there.
     
  4. Feb 9, 2017 at 4:19 PM
    #4
    Corey08cummins

    Corey08cummins [OP] Member

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    Are you using an amsoil type or a mobil type I was just planning on using mobil 1 5w30 w/ napa gold filter
     
  5. Feb 9, 2017 at 6:44 PM
    #5
    2.7taco

    2.7taco Well-Known Member

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    I'd keep away from the NAPA gold (WIX filter). WIX has white washed all the filter specs and they will not divulge the actual filtration specs.
    Synthetic will not cause any harm period. I have been running Mobil 1 Synthetic for many years now. Great oil.
    I have now switched over to 0W-40 due to the slight reduction in viscosity made for the GM Dexos program. 0W-40 has the same viscosity as the older 5W-30 the engine was engineered around.
     
  6. Feb 9, 2017 at 6:45 PM
    #6
    2.7taco

    2.7taco Well-Known Member

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    Amsoil filters are made by Donaldson just an FYI.
     
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  7. Feb 9, 2017 at 7:01 PM
    #7
    Corey08cummins

    Corey08cummins [OP] Member

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    The napa gold/wix has a micron rating of 21 according to the website
     
  8. Feb 9, 2017 at 7:02 PM
    #8
    Corey08cummins

    Corey08cummins [OP] Member

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    That a good bit of info
     
  9. Feb 9, 2017 at 7:08 PM
    #9
    2.7taco

    2.7taco Well-Known Member

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    That filter used to show a beta ratio. The filter currently only shows a nominal micron rating of 21 which is 50% of the filters ability. 98.7% is known as an absolute rating. Toyota spec is 40 micron absolute and the WIX is more like 45-47 micron absolute which is outside of the Toyota spec. I run a Motorcraft FL400S which is made by Purolator for Ford. It has an absolute rating of 20 micron per the Ford spec. This filter is larger too. The standard size I believe is an FL910S.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
  10. Feb 9, 2017 at 7:39 PM
    #10
    2.7taco

    2.7taco Well-Known Member

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    Royal Purple is nothing different from Mobil 1.
    It's a group 3 base stock with some different additives possibly minor amounts of PAO(Poly Alpha Olefin).

    Amsoil I believe also is group 3 on specific lines but they do carry group 5 oils as well.

    Redline I believe is group 4 or group 5 I forget.

    Bottom line is agree they do get expensive but I can't see the cost advantage. I sent a sample of my oil to the lab in the past and it was still strong at 7500 miles but honestly 10k the oil was started to weaken. That was running Mobil 1 Synthetic 5W-30. The additive package had started to weaken.
     
  11. Feb 10, 2017 at 6:11 AM
    #11
    greguw

    greguw Well-Known Member

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    I have run synthetic in just about every newer truck I have owned , usually go 10k between changes but I do change the oil filters out every 5k just piece of mind for me .
    I was allways a Amsoil guy with my diesel trucks but ran the dual remote filter system . As far as gas powered trucks I am happy the Mobile 1 full syn .
     
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  12. Feb 10, 2017 at 8:34 AM
    #12
    uwu

    uwu Well-Known Member

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    I've read good things and have had good luck running factory Toyota 0w-20. It's made by Mobil, same thing as their 0w-20 but with more additives. The Toyota oil filters are also good and cheap.
     
  13. Feb 10, 2017 at 9:37 AM
    #13
    2.7taco

    2.7taco Well-Known Member

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    Its Mobil Super Synthetic 0W-20. Nothing special about it and no significant changes in the additive package. The 2TR-FE globally uses 5W-30 or even higher viscosity. I read an FSM document for Australia stating 15W-40 for temperatures from 10*F to +100*F, 10W-30 for temperatures from 0*F to +100*F and 5W-30 for temperatures below -20*F to 50*F. Acceptable oil pressures are 4.2 PSI or more at idle and up to 75 PSI at 3000 RPM.
    In the USA Toyota has speced the oil for an unrealistic temperature range. The reality is the oil film is reduced with higher temps and this is why FSM documents from other countries have stated to run thicker viscosity.
    Also these are API SJ oils. In the USA the Ash content is reduced and the API rating is SN.


    In the USA the 0W-20 is to gain MPG from the 2TR-FE. The gain is not even 1% but the risk of bearing wipe increases much more than 1% because of the reduced bearing film. In a 20 MPG vehicle 1% is 0.2 MPG.
     
  14. Feb 10, 2017 at 11:05 AM
    #14
    tgear.shead

    tgear.shead Well-Known Member

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    And yet, how many 2TR-FE engines have you heard about wearing out prematurely due to low viscosity oil? The reality is that a synthetic 0w20 oil will sustain a higher viscosity than a conventional w30. This is because oil loses viscosity as it breaks down. So conventional 5w30 with 3000 miles on it.... 0w15. Synthetic 0w20 with 7500 miles on it.... 0w20.
     
  15. Feb 10, 2017 at 12:28 PM
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    2.7taco

    2.7taco Well-Known Member

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    I'm not remotely going to argue with you. Please refer to forums such as BITOG or consult with major oil manufacturers. Your statement on viscosity is completely inaccurate.
     
  16. Feb 10, 2017 at 4:05 PM
    #16
    Corey08cummins

    Corey08cummins [OP] Member

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    Well if the FL910S is a 20 micron also I'll go with it. I can get it closer to home and at a lesser cost.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2017
  17. Feb 12, 2017 at 7:55 AM
    #17
    tgear.shead

    tgear.shead Well-Known Member

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    If you're not going to argue, then DON'T ARGUE.

    So take your ignorance somewhere else.
     
  18. Feb 12, 2017 at 11:15 AM
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    2.7taco

    2.7taco Well-Known Member

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    Per the PDS section of Mobil 1 Synthetic Oils.

    SAE Grade: 5W-20
    Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt (ASTM D445): 8.9
    Viscosity, @ 40ºC, cSt (ASTM D445): 49.8
    Viscosity Index: 160
    Sulfated Ash, wt%, (ASTM D874): 0.85
    HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC (ASTM D4683): 2.75
    Pour Point, ºC (ASTM D97): -43
    Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92): 230
    Density @15º C g/ml, (ASTM D4052): 0.852


    SAE Grade: 5W-30
    Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt (ASTM D445): 11.0
    Viscosity, @ 40ºC, cSt (ASTM D445): 61.7
    Viscosity Index: 172
    Sulfated Ash, wt%, (ASTM D874): 0.8
    Phosphorous, wt% (ASTM D4981): 0.8
    HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC (ASTM D4683): 3.1
    Pour Point, ºC (ASTM D97): -42
    Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92): 230
    Density @15º C g/ml, (ASTM D4052): 0.855


    SAE Grade 0W-40
    Viscosity, cSt (ASTM D445)@ 100ºC: 12.9
    Viscosity, cSt (ASTM D445)@ 40ºC: 70.8
    Viscosity Index: 186
    MRV at -40ºC, cP (ASTM D4684): 21,600
    HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC (ASTM D4683): 3.6
    Total Base Number (ASTM D2896): 12.6
    Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874): 1.34
    Phosphorous, wt% (ASTM D4981): 0.1
    Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92): 226
    Density @ 15.6ºC, g/ml (ASTM D4052): 0.8456



    MOBIL SUPER SYNTHETIC
    0W-20

    API Service Classification: SN
    Gravity, API: 34.9
    Specific Gravity: 0.850
    Pour Point, °C (°F ): -39 (-38)
    Flash Point, °C (°F), ASTM D 92: 234 (453)
    cSt at 40°C: 49.6
    cSt at 100°C: 8.8
    CCS, cP: 4670 @ -30°C
    MRV, cP: 13,200 @ -35°C
    Viscosity Index: 158
    Resource Conserving: Yes

    Take what you want from the above information also note in Australia they use 10W-30 and 5W-40 unless in cold climates.


    OIL VISCOSITY APPROVED IN AUSTRALIA
    SAE grade: 10W-30
    Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt (ASTM D445): 10.1
    Viscosity, @ 40ºC, cSt (ASTM D445): 63.2
    Viscosity index: 146
    Sulfated ash, wt%, (ASTM D874): 0.8
    HTHS viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC (ASTM D4683): 3.0
    Pour Point, ºC (ASTM D97): -42
    Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92): 232
    Density @15º C g/ml, (ASTM D4052): 0.859

    SAE Grade 5W-40
    Viscosity, cSt (ASTM D445)@ 40ºC: 97.9
    Viscosity, cSt (ASTM D445)@ 100ºC: 14.5
    Viscosity Index: 153
    Phosporous (ASTM D4951): 0.11
    HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC (ASTM D4683): 3.8
    Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874): 0.95
    Total Base #, mg KOH/g (ASTM D2896): 10.7
    Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92): 215
    Density @ 15.6ºC g/ml (ASTM D4052): 0.85


    Here is a UOA from 2006
    https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=760319

    Another UOA from 2010
    https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2028377

    Another UOA from 2010 from a 2000 3RZ-FE
    https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1963252


    No major viscosity loss on any of these samples and all samples show to the viscosity within the rated API Grade.
     
  19. Feb 21, 2017 at 9:54 AM
    #19
    DGXR

    DGXR Well-Known Member

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    I use Amsoil gear oils for the differentials and for the transmission in the sports car, not for engine oils.
    Usually Mobil 1, but would happily run Valvoline Synpower, Pennzoil Platinum, Castrol Edge or any other major brand synthetic. Always 5w30.
    For oil filters I use Denso 150-1002, or Purolator P/L10241, or Motorcraft FL400/FL910s.
     
  20. Feb 22, 2017 at 7:44 PM
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    TRVLR500

    TRVLR500 Well-Known Member

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    That's why I feel perfectly fine running the 10-30 Amsoil down to -20 in my 2.7. I've never bought into the thin oil myth. It's bogus and doesn't really save much fuel at all and personally, in some cases it could reduce the longevity of an engine. Depending on the engine once it gets some real miles on it. These CAFE standards are so over the top these days it's ridiculous. Furthermore they have caused 10's of thousands of deaths since they started them.
     

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