1. Welcome to Tacoma World!

    You are currently viewing as a guest! To get full-access, you need to register for a FREE account.

    As a registered member, you’ll be able to:
    • Participate in all Tacoma discussion topics
    • Communicate privately with other Tacoma owners from around the world
    • Post your own photos in our Members Gallery
    • Access all special features of the site

That >8,000 lb. winch is a waste of money.

Discussion in 'Recovery' started by TomHGZ, Aug 24, 2020.

  1. Aug 24, 2020 at 3:22 AM
    #1
    TomHGZ

    TomHGZ [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2011
    Member:
    #58798
    Messages:
    117
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tom
    Seattle
    Vehicle:
    New to me 14 Sport 4x4 AC AT
    Shell, homebuilt pullout shelf, OME shocks, rear seat delete, sway bar delete, MOLLE bedsides ...
    Title to catch eyes, but hear me out: putting an >8,000 lb. winch on a Toyota Tacoma is a massive waste of money for the vast majority of Tacoma drivers.

    Chances are you paid more than $500 for a big winch, paid another $1000 for the bumper to hold it, and now the weight pulls the front of your truck down, makes it handle like a soggy sloppy joe sandwich, saps its already meager fuel economy, and you could have spent the money on something else you wanted. The net loss for your daily driver now exceeds the occasional utility the winch provides.

    Alternatively, take half an hour learn how to set up some mechanical advantage systems. We like to talk about "know how to use your hi-lift jack before you need it on the trail." Knowing how to set up mechanical advantage systems are arguably just as useful, and maybe more.

    And we already use snatch blocks: sometimes we use them as a simple change-of-direction pulley; sometimes we use them as a 2:1 mechanical advantage. Why stop at 2:1?

    Setting up a 4:1 system with a 3,000 lb. ATV winch yields 12,000 lbs. of pull, which exceeds the working load of most synthetic line. ATV winches are far lighter than truck winches; you can stow them in your tool box and use them front or back as you please, and you can probably buy one that will do the job for $100. Spend another $100 on some pulleys and other gear set up your 4:1 system, and you now have the a 12,000 lb. pull for $200. And setting up a good MA system on the trail gets style points.

    There are some disadvantages: The truck doesn’t project the same tough image without a winch and steel bumper out front. Setting up for a pull can take a little longer. The pulls themselves will take longer. You'll have to learn something well enough that you can repeat it under stress. And you may want to learn how to brake and reset your mechanical advantage system mid-pull, because you won't get as much pull distance from your line.

    But then you no longer have to drive your chonky winch to work. You don't have to buy new coil springs or dial up your preload to compensate for the winch and bumper that just killed your lift height. Your truck won't feel like a reflection in a funhouse mirror when you shoot the curves on the backroads. And you can pull from the front, back, or even the sides with all those pulleys you now have.

    This is just my opinion though. If anyone is already using MA systems higher than 2:1's for vehicle recovery, share your thoughts.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020 at 9:31 AM
  2. Aug 24, 2020 at 3:38 AM
    #2
    koditten

    koditten Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2013
    Member:
    #112077
    Messages:
    13,815
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Kirk
    Central Michigan
    Vehicle:
    04 trd x-cab 4 x 4 3.4l
    Reserected from the dead.
    I agree entirely.
     
  3. Aug 24, 2020 at 3:53 AM
    #3
    PCTaco

    PCTaco 36 hour Build

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2013
    Member:
    #108719
    Messages:
    2,791
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Adam
    New Columbia, PA
    Vehicle:
    '18 Access Cab TRD Offroad RIP '13
    Working on it
    So the only place that makes an 8klb winch is Warn. Warn charges you for the name.

    You can buy a smittybilt 12k for the same price as a Warn 8k basic winch (weight not listed, so I used the ZEON). The Smittybilt x20 12k is listed at 67lbs for $639. The Warn ZEON 8-S 8k is listed at 75lbs for $1288.

    May as well buy the 12k if it fits.
     
  4. Aug 24, 2020 at 3:53 AM
    #4
    rnish

    rnish Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2014
    Member:
    #129450
    Messages:
    4,209
    Gender:
    Male
    Maryland USA
    Vehicle:
    Tacoma 2nd gen
    Pro Suspension (Bilstein), OME Dakar (med), armor
    Then don’t get one. :notsure:
     
  5. Aug 24, 2020 at 3:59 AM
    #5
    Bannerman

    Bannerman Former Child

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2015
    Member:
    #166789
    Messages:
    4,603
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Johnson
    CLT/AVL, NC
    Vehicle:
    15 TRD OR MT
    Shitpost. Adding that much complexity (4:1) adds points of failure and makes it more risky and less safe. I’m not arguing that most people that have a winch actually NEED one, but suggesting an ATV winch instead of a properly sized winch for the vehicle is silly.

    And for what’s its worth, my set up was around $1000 and only adds 80ish pounds. Worth it for the utility and peace of mind.

    BE465780-7E83-4018-961D-A3BF260177BA.jpg
     
  6. Aug 24, 2020 at 4:18 AM
    #6
    koditten

    koditten Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2013
    Member:
    #112077
    Messages:
    13,815
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Kirk
    Central Michigan
    Vehicle:
    04 trd x-cab 4 x 4 3.4l
    Reserected from the dead.
    No way am I putting a winch on the front of my daily driver here in Michigan.

    The road salt would be power driven into every nook and cranny on the winch. No way could you trust it to work in an emergency situation.

    If you have a dedicated wheeling rig, then by all means, install what you want.
     
  7. Aug 24, 2020 at 4:41 AM
    #7
    TomHGZ

    TomHGZ [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2011
    Member:
    #58798
    Messages:
    117
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tom
    Seattle
    Vehicle:
    New to me 14 Sport 4x4 AC AT
    Shell, homebuilt pullout shelf, OME shocks, rear seat delete, sway bar delete, MOLLE bedsides ...
    See the carrot before the 8.
     
    BalutTaco likes this.
  8. Aug 24, 2020 at 4:54 AM
    #8
    Texoma

    Texoma IG: Triple C Chop Shop

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2011
    Member:
    #50374
    Messages:
    15,821
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Chris(Topher)
    Lago Vista, TX
    Vehicle:
    10 Taco 4x4
    A bunch a cool stickers, a bada ass MetalMiller Tx Longhorns grill emblem painted Hemi Orange, JBA long tube headers with o2 sims, Diff breather mod, Red LED interior lights, Fancy head unit that plays ipod n movies, Also DIY install factory stuff like, factory cruise control, factory intermittent wipers, OME nitro struts with 886x springs and toy tec top plate, JBA high caster UCA's for better alignmnet and dey beefier too, Old Man Emu Dakar leaf springs in da rear with the gear, U bolt flipper, Ivan Stewart TRD rims with 33" K Bro 2's, some bad ass weather tech floor liners so I don't muck up my interior, an ATO shackle flipper for mo travel in da rear wit the gear, also super shiny Fox 2.0 shocks back there too, all sorts of steal armor for bouncing off of the rocks like demello sliders, AP front skid, trans skid, n transfer skid, demello gas tank skid, and a tough as nails ARB bumper with warn 8k winch, I'm sure there's more
    Bad info. You obviously have not been in a tough situation where an ATV winch pulling on a 5k# vehicle will make things worse. If you're so concerned about weight, get a front hitch and put a winch on a hitch mount.
     
    RobP62, Skierrichy, Biscuits and 25 others like this.
  9. Aug 24, 2020 at 4:56 AM
    #9
    Marshall R

    Marshall R Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2015
    Member:
    #156224
    Messages:
    2,131
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Marshall
    Vehicle:
    07 White TRD double cab
    none
    JVL1985, Kwisak, milescf and 2 others like this.
  10. Aug 24, 2020 at 4:57 AM
    #10
    crazysccrmd

    crazysccrmd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2016
    Member:
    #181592
    Messages:
    4,199
    Gender:
    Male
    I'll take a single line pull over rigging a bunch of stuff up every time. No regrets with the Warn Xeon I was running on my Tacoma.
     
  11. Aug 24, 2020 at 5:05 AM
    #11
    six5creed

    six5creed Co-Host # ¾

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2019
    Member:
    #298734
    Messages:
    5,437
    First Name:
    Creed, Bruce, Shane, or Slim
    Boogerhole, N.C.
    Vehicle:
    Toyota Tacoma V6 4WD
    Need a new radio
    I bought a Warn 10K lb winch on clearance years ago for $400 and put it on a plate that fits in a receiver, I can use it on the front or back of either of my trucks (made my own hitches) and also on both trailers for a non runner or broken down something. Cables were expensive to wire all of it but I don't have it dedicated anywhere and don't have to carry it around all the time on/in my truck :D
     
    c170b, Wyoming09, Don5352 and 5 others like this.
  12. Aug 24, 2020 at 5:06 AM
    #12
    PCTaco

    PCTaco 36 hour Build

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2013
    Member:
    #108719
    Messages:
    2,791
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Adam
    New Columbia, PA
    Vehicle:
    '18 Access Cab TRD Offroad RIP '13
    Working on it
    Even with a 4:1 you're very probably going to be exceeding the WLL of your cable with an actually stuck truck if using a winch rated to 3k. Not to mention most ATV winches come with much less cable, meaning to set up a 4:1 you'd need an anchor point under ~15 feet away.
     
    RobP62, Don5352, ChamYota and 12 others like this.
  13. Aug 24, 2020 at 5:10 AM
    #13
    TomHGZ

    TomHGZ [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2011
    Member:
    #58798
    Messages:
    117
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tom
    Seattle
    Vehicle:
    New to me 14 Sport 4x4 AC AT
    Shell, homebuilt pullout shelf, OME shocks, rear seat delete, sway bar delete, MOLLE bedsides ...
    A 3K ATV winch plus 2 double pulleys cost $200 total, weighs 25 lbs, and fits in a backpack.

    With another five pounds of hardware you can quickly attach it to any tow hitch or hook as long as the vehicle has a battery. That’s utility.

    If 4 pulleys is too complicated, we shouldn’t be wheeling.
     
    t4daddy and Slick Taco like this.
  14. Aug 24, 2020 at 5:22 AM
    #14
    JEEPNIK

    JEEPNIK Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2020
    Member:
    #326895
    Messages:
    682
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    2020 Voodoo Blue TRD Sport
    The receiver mount front and rear solves all of the issues mentioned but one. The winch/mounting plate can get heavy fast.
    I have a almost forty year old Warn. They weighed more then than now. Still the receiver mount is doable for an old man. However I haven’t met any women and quite a few young men that can manage it.
    My point is simple, if you receiver mount make sure you buy based on what you can haul to the front of your vehicle.
     
    Thatbassguy and koditten like this.
  15. Aug 24, 2020 at 5:23 AM
    #15
    SR-71A

    SR-71A Define "Well-Known Member"

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2018
    Member:
    #255145
    Messages:
    3,935
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Zack
    Southern Maine
    Vehicle:
    2012 DCSB, TX Baja Edition. Barcelona Red
    Mobtown sliders, ARB bar, Icon RXT leafs, extended & adjustable Kings, JBA UCAs, Tepui Ayer 2, dual batteries, Gen2 xrc9.5 winch, CB, GMRS, S1 ditch lights...
    That right there. Ive had to winch myself out once. Winched others maybe 3-4 times. Every single time I was pulling 60+ feet of rope out to get where I needed to go.

    If you're running a 4:1 system and still leaving enough on the drum to meet manf. recommendations, Im not sure you could even get 10 feet away. That doesnt seem super great to me. :notsure:
     
    RobP62, photogr4x4, Anderson and 7 others like this.
  16. Aug 24, 2020 at 5:24 AM
    #16
    TomHGZ

    TomHGZ [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2011
    Member:
    #58798
    Messages:
    117
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tom
    Seattle
    Vehicle:
    New to me 14 Sport 4x4 AC AT
    Shell, homebuilt pullout shelf, OME shocks, rear seat delete, sway bar delete, MOLLE bedsides ...
    It sounds like you don’t understand the force multiplications of MA systems.

    There is no need to run an MA system the entire length of the line.
     
  17. Aug 24, 2020 at 5:25 AM
    #17
    SR-71A

    SR-71A Define "Well-Known Member"

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2018
    Member:
    #255145
    Messages:
    3,935
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Zack
    Southern Maine
    Vehicle:
    2012 DCSB, TX Baja Edition. Barcelona Red
    Mobtown sliders, ARB bar, Icon RXT leafs, extended & adjustable Kings, JBA UCAs, Tepui Ayer 2, dual batteries, Gen2 xrc9.5 winch, CB, GMRS, S1 ditch lights...
    Maybe you should explain to everyone what this "MA system" is
     
  18. Aug 24, 2020 at 5:30 AM
    #18
    TomHGZ

    TomHGZ [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2011
    Member:
    #58798
    Messages:
    117
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tom
    Seattle
    Vehicle:
    New to me 14 Sport 4x4 AC AT
    Shell, homebuilt pullout shelf, OME shocks, rear seat delete, sway bar delete, MOLLE bedsides ...
    There’s no reason to run the 4:1 all the way up the line. I’ll look for a video to explain.
     
  19. Aug 24, 2020 at 5:30 AM
    #19
    Bannerman

    Bannerman Former Child

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2015
    Member:
    #166789
    Messages:
    4,603
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Johnson
    CLT/AVL, NC
    Vehicle:
    15 TRD OR MT
    @TomHGZ means Mechanical Advantage, but what he does not factor is that with an ATV winch at 4:1, he will run out of line unless he is doing a 10 foot pull, and he will likely be exceeding the WLL of his line. Additionally, a winch is rated with one wrap of line on the drum, so my 10K winch will only pull about 5k with a full drum.
     
    Anderson, Hobbs, bigmw and 3 others like this.
  20. Aug 24, 2020 at 5:32 AM
    #20
    crazysccrmd

    crazysccrmd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2016
    Member:
    #181592
    Messages:
    4,199
    Gender:
    Male
    This would take a whole lot of extensions to rig a 4:1 setup with a low pull winch. A winch rated to be strong enough is a lot more useful when you need line length and pulling power.

    FB_IMG_1502600356605.jpg
     

Products Discussed in

To Top