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The Getaway...Crom's build and adventures

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Builds (2005-2015)' started by Crom, Feb 11, 2015.

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  1. Jan 23, 2017 at 6:28 PM
    #3401
    Scott B.

    Scott B. Well-Known Member

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    Could you please explain your thinking/reasoning here?

    The shackle will see the same load independent of hanging orientation. The only difference will be the direction of load.
     
    Crom [OP] and ChadsPride like this.
  2. Jan 23, 2017 at 8:40 PM
    #3402
    Crom

    Crom [OP] 2/3 way thru. I'll be back OCT 23, 2021

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    Sure. Short answer is buckling

    Long answer:

    I don't think it's the same, and it gets into the heart of engineering on the matter.

    First this:

    And this from an anonymous engineer who calls himself ass_slayer69 :rofl:

    I've seen an empty soda can support adult human weight. Poke the side and it buckles and collapses catastrophically. Take an undamaged can and try to pull it apart, extremely difficult.

    Same goes for plastic straws, metal wires etc. Very difficult to pull apart yet easy to crush.

    Toyota designed the second gen shackle for tension load, not for compression. Just my opinion, but I think using suspension components improperly can have disastrous results. If I was going to shackle flip, I won't ever, but let's say I did I for the moment, I would want the absolute strongest solid one I could buy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
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  3. Jan 23, 2017 at 8:52 PM
    #3403
    Crom

    Crom [OP] 2/3 way thru. I'll be back OCT 23, 2021

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    Propane torch, Dremel, and jigsaw, and you're good to go. I have no doubt. I seen your work, you could handle the shackle bushings without any real trouble. Give yourself about 30 minutes per side maybe 45. No sweat for you man!
     
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  4. Jan 23, 2017 at 9:27 PM
    #3404
    Crom

    Crom [OP] 2/3 way thru. I'll be back OCT 23, 2021

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    Actually I tried. But it wasn't enough. In fact it used to be much worse. lol If I ever have a good reason to pull the coilovers I'll try again.

    I like camber close to zero and I like Caster above 2 degrees closer to 3 if possible and just a little bit of toe in. I also like it when the technician makes both sides match. Depending on who does my alignment sometime they listen and sometimes they don't. They're under contract, and if it's in the green they don't have to make any adjustments at all. But I'll bring them treats pizzas bagels and tip them and then they listen to me hahaha

    You need a spacer to stop hitting the top of the wheel well on your Bump Stop and probably chop the cab mount back
     
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  5. Jan 23, 2017 at 10:53 PM
    #3405
    Bruce988jl

    Bruce988jl Well-Known Member

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    Curious to know what the part number of the ES bushing kit you used - this looks like a nice addition when I go ahead and do my suspension. Just spent the last 2 hours reading the last sections of your thread - amazing wealth of knowledge here. Thank you for taking the time to write all this up!
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
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  6. Jan 23, 2017 at 11:19 PM
    #3406
    Crom

    Crom [OP] 2/3 way thru. I'll be back OCT 23, 2021

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    Welcome. Yeah it got crazy in here! lol. Glad you found it useful!

    I'll post the cores tomorrow.

    The OEM shackle takes the same sized bushing as the leaf eyes. 40mm diameter. This will work.

    http://www.headstrongoffroad.com/store/p125/Poly_Bushing_and_Sleeves_for_Leaf_Pack_-_05__Tacoma.html

    Or this.

    I've bought from both vendors and compared both products side by side. They are both quality.

    I'll be running the headstrong ones but prefer the ones that wheelers sells.

    @GHOST SHIP
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
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  7. Jan 24, 2017 at 3:31 AM
    #3407
    Styx2015

    Styx2015 Well-Known Member

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    Back to shocks....haha.

    So I found this information on the Bilstein 5125 that you were talking about @Crom.

    http://www.shockwarehouse.com/site/product.cfm?id=1460957
    This is the part # 33-230375
    17.11" compressed x 28.33" extended

    http://www.shockwarehouse.com/site/product.cfm?id=1582662
    This is the part # 33-230429
    17.11" compressed x 28.33" extended

    Both are 5125 series shocks, so what is the difference?

    Here: http://www.shockwarehouse.com/site/bilstein_5125.cfm

    Their valve rates are different, as can also be determined by the first two links.
    Part # 33-230375
    Valving: 255/70

    Part # 33-230429
    Valving: 360/80

    The valving corresponds to how "firm" the dampening ability of the shock is.
    See here for explanation: http://www.eshocks.com/bil_ORgd.asp?Manf=All

    If you scroll further down the page to "Determining Which Shocks to Use",
    whether you classify the Tacoma as "full size with IFS" or "mini truck with IFS" it still recommends a 255/70 valve setup on the rear shocks.

    All this in a roundabout way of saying, Crom is right...again. The 33-230375 would be a great fit on the truck!

    The reason I am asking so many questions about your setup specifically is that I have an identical rear setup:
    - full Dakar leaf pack with D29XL ready to install
    - 3* shims to correct angles
    - All pro U-bolt flip with Wheeler's Superbumps
    - Goodridge extended rear brake lines (sold by one of the TW members)
    - ARE CX (not MX) shell

    I will need to measure accurately when I return to the US to be sure of all of this, but as it stands, I am onboard with your idea of going with the 5125 versus the RCD B110.
    While I am away from my truck, I am doing research vicariously through you!
    I will also order the spacers from Wheeler's as well to make sure I have what I need to complete the job and keep my shocks safe.

    Disclaimer: The Wheeler's website lists a Bilstein 5125 rear shock for the 05-11 Tacoma. This is not the correct shock or part number as described in this thread.
    The compression and extension lengths are vastly different. Be sure to do your research!

    As far as the fronts go, I think I will eventually end up with the 6112's with the 700lb coil option, as I have a lot of extra weight on the nose.
     
    BDub, Crom [OP], HB Taco and 2 others like this.
  8. Jan 24, 2017 at 5:35 AM
    #3408
    Scott B.

    Scott B. Well-Known Member

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    OK - I'll buy that. I need to study materials a little bit more...

    To me, the ideal shackle set up would be a tension shackle, but at least twice as long as the one we have now (with the appropriately lowered mounting point.) A shackle pivoting forward (all the way to the horizontal position) yields a large amount of droop travel.

    I had a setup like that in my Ranger, and got an incredible amount of rear axle travel. Maybe someday...
     
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  9. Jan 24, 2017 at 6:41 AM
    #3409
    bski22

    bski22 Shaka Zulu \000/

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    This thread has my brain spinning. Savage status
     
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  10. Jan 24, 2017 at 8:31 AM
    #3410
    BDub

    BDub Well-Known Member

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    This is great. I see now that Wheelers (and most sites) list the 33-230337 part number for the 5125 rear shock for the 2nd gen Tacoma's. Good on you for finding the 33-230375 part number. wish I new that before I did my suspension. Now I have a new part number when I go and change them out.

    REAR 5125 BILSTEIN
    33-230337
    Collapsed Length: 15 in
    Extended Length: 24.4 in
    Travel: 9.4 in

    REAR 5125 BILSTEIN
    33-230375
    Collapsed Length: 17.11
    Extended Length: 28.33
    Travel: 11.22 in

    and for reference:
    REAR TRD FACTORY SHOCK
    Monotube Shock Absorber
    Series: 4600 Series;
    Collapsed Length: 13.98 in / 355 mm
    Extended Length: 22.94 in / 582.7 mm
    Travel: 8.96 in

    REAR 5100 BILSTEIN
    24-186728
    Collapsed Length: 14.02 in / 356 mm
    Extended Length: 22.94 in / 582.7 mm
    Travel: 8.92 in

    REAR 5100 extended BILSTEIN
    F4-BE5-B110-T5
    Collapsed Length: 16.34
    Extended Length: 27.28
    Travel: 10.94 in

    REAR 5160 BILSTEIN
    25-24379 / 25-24539
    Collapsed Length: 14.22 in
    Extended Length: 24.06 in
    Travel: 9.39 in

    OME N182 Nitrocharger
    Internal Design: Twintube
    Collapsed Length: 13.86 in / 352 mm
    Extended Length: 23.94 in / 608 mm
    Travel: 10.08in
     
  11. Jan 24, 2017 at 12:12 PM
    #3411
    Styx2015

    Styx2015 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't find the part number. @Crom mentioned it in a post a couple pages ago. But I decided to delve a little deeper into the issue.

    Nice work putting all of this together. Makes it very clear for folks who are shopping for a rear end upgrade. As long as everything is measured properly for correct tolerances, the 5125 (33-230375) will provide the maximum amount of travel (with the Dakar leaf pack).
     
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  12. Jan 24, 2017 at 12:27 PM
    #3412
    BDub

    BDub Well-Known Member

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  13. Jan 24, 2017 at 12:29 PM
    #3413
    Subway4X4

    Subway4X4 Shameless Copy Cat

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    I looked a bunch of times at the pics for the 4xinnovations "replacement rear shackles." Don't they look like shackle flips with stock length shackles with bonus greasable bushings?
     
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  14. Jan 24, 2017 at 12:33 PM
    #3414
    scocar

    scocar Prebunking

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    I've asked them for several clarifications. Apparently they bought out ATO, and they need to improve on some of these details on their product descriptions.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2017
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  15. Jan 24, 2017 at 1:06 PM
    #3415
    Crom

    Crom [OP] 2/3 way thru. I'll be back OCT 23, 2021

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    Good luck with your work. Welcome. You got a great alignment tech from the sounds of it. I have a guy like that but he is in the neighboring city and haven't been there in almost a year now.

    Roger on all that you wrote. Looks good.

    My only comment would be that the 6112 shock was tuned with a 600 or 610 coil. So changing the spring rate will affect the dampening / vehicle handling. What that will actually look like on your truck? I have no idea, talk to Bilstein on that, or someone well versed in shock tuning.

    Copy that. Sound like quite the project. Maybe not to different from the Chevy 63' leaf spring swap thing. I've been casually gathering details of that to understand it better. From what I've read, it's good for wheeling, but maybe not so good with Expo weight.

    I was able to compare my travel numbers with Frank's @Rattletrap66 in this thread over here wheen he went to 14" travel shocks.

    What I learned was that the Chevy springs will get you about 18" of wheel travel. Compared to Dakar, (with a non-binding shackle), 13.75"

    I'm done building my truck for suspension. Once the modified OEM greaseable shackles go in, that it!

    :goingcrazy:

    I've have other stuff to share, will wait until next week. :)

    Just wanted to clarify, that the F4-BE5-B110-T5 shock is an RCD shock, Race Car Dynamics, not an extended 5100 Bilstein as is often mentioned. Even vendors selling it don't know and label it wrong.

    Good link! Thanks.

    Here is a link to the full off-road catalog I've been using to do my research:

    http://cart.bilsteinus.com/pdfs/off-road.pdf


    Yes.

    [​IMG]
    Visualize taking the shackle in this picture, unbolt the top bolt, and rotate it about 180* backwards and it should bolt right up to our stock shackle hangers. You can't see the grease fitting because it's on the other side. That pisses me off when I can't see shit I want to see. lol

    I know Scott emailed them and curious to hear the responses he got. His Q's are in his parts shelf, I mean build thread. :D

    :thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2017
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  16. Jan 24, 2017 at 1:21 PM
    #3416
    Rattletrap66

    Rattletrap66 (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

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  17. Jan 24, 2017 at 2:26 PM
    #3417
    bski22

    bski22 Shaka Zulu \000/

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    @uurx our next project. Flipped greasable stock length shackles... see above... my money tree is bare though
     
  18. Jan 24, 2017 at 3:03 PM
    #3418
    uurx

    uurx Well-Known Member

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    crom has really done some nice work on this one no doubt... i do think though for me it will be leave it just as is until taking the plunge and doing the Archive fit. I do wanna take on the any time rear view camera and fog light mods though, and i really need to cut out rear sun shades for the cap windows.

    been said before but say it again, thank you Crom for documenting these things for us to use.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2017
  19. Jan 24, 2017 at 3:59 PM
    #3419
    HB Taco

    HB Taco Well-Known Member

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    Excellent! So the 337 represents an upgrade if like me your running the stock leaf pack and aal's with 5100's which are stock length. An extra 1.5" extended over stock and 1" longer compressed. With the 3 smaller aal's do you think its okay to run this with the stock bumps as is? Add longer brake lines or modify bracket. Actually I want to do u bolt flip and upgrade the bumps then put overload back in so then it should be fine for sure with 2" lift. I'm not looking to replace the leaf pack at this time but may be interested in this shock since it helps over what I have now. I'll have to do some measurements and have a look. Is the valving the same as 5100's? Id like them to be a little more firm. Hmm Thanks
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2017
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  20. Jan 25, 2017 at 1:57 AM
    #3420
    Styx2015

    Styx2015 Well-Known Member

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    Hey, I seem to remember in reading through this entire thread that someone posted about some leaf spring isolators that were like a foam insert to go between the upper leafs of the Dakar pack. I think a link was posted as well. They looked somewhat like what a garage door seal would sit on on the floor.
     
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