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TSBs are not for owners as much as technicians

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by Kingfrog, Mar 22, 2011.

  1. Mar 22, 2011 at 7:38 AM
    #1
    Kingfrog

    Kingfrog [OP] Well-Known Member

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    when I was a technician we routinely received "TSBs" on EVERY machine. When I was aboud a Sub in the Navy we had them.

    The sole purpose was to LIMIT the time the tech needs to diagnose a problem that may or may not show up on more than a few components. If a problem showed up a certain number of times, it would enter a data base and a TSB would be generated. It is a tool for the service dept. Not for the customer to badger the service department about.

    People believe TSBs are supposed to be done on all trucks "just because" EVERY vehicle, appliance, office machine, factory machine has them. They are tools for techs. owners see them and think they are flaws in every vehicle. They are only flaws if you experience them AND they can be VERIFIED by a technician.

    If you own a home you can bet there are TSBs on your heating and cooling Systems, appliances, Mowers...on and on.

    I got sucked into the "I have to replace my springs" like many but decided in the end it Wasn't a problem I HAD...I just wanted it because I thought is was a flaw and wanted a "more perfect" truck. It is not a flaw for me. The vibration issue is annoying and I will get that TSB done. THANKFULLY there IS a TSB for it. otherwise they could misdiagnose the issue and cause more problems than solve.
     
  2. Mar 22, 2011 at 8:03 AM
    #2
    mattg43

    mattg43 Well-Known Member

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    Very reasonable. I was thinking the same thing about my rear leafs, until I tried to tow a trailer this weekend. Have an appointment on Friday to get it checked out, but it is pretty bad with weight on the back. If they opt not to do it, I will have to get an AAL or new rear leaf pack in order to tow...
     
  3. Mar 22, 2011 at 8:09 AM
    #3
    bjmoose

    bjmoose Bullwinkle J. Moose

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    OP: good point.

    The TSB is right for some - who regularly carry heavy loads.

    But Toyota has successfully identified that a lot of us use the bed for space not for weight, and prefer the softer ride.
     
  4. Mar 22, 2011 at 8:11 AM
    #4
    bjmoose

    bjmoose Bullwinkle J. Moose

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    This is also an excellent point, and in this case the TSB is being used for its intended purpose, to help diagnose a problem that is being experienced.

    The OPs original point is that there's no point in applying the TSB fix, when no problem has been experienced.
     
  5. Mar 22, 2011 at 8:12 AM
    #5
    jrdbrn

    jrdbrn Borne Fishing

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    I can understand the OPs point of view, but the TSB also is an admittance from the manufacture that there is a flaw in the product. When you pay as much as these vehicles cost, flaws should be corrected.

    I have never brought my truck in for a TSB as I haven't been affected yet.
     
  6. Mar 22, 2011 at 8:32 AM
    #6
    D13

    D13 Well-Known Member

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    A dealership employee recently described the TSB's as the most common complaints by owners, and like the OP said are there to quicken the process.
     
  7. Mar 22, 2011 at 8:33 AM
    #7
    OZ-T

    OZ-T Quite an experience to live in fear , isn't it ?

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    Kingfrog your point is valid , however I would ask , with regard to the leafspring TSB , " why 4 leafs for Canada , and 3 for the US ? " , it seems to me that these two configurations cannot possibly be able to carry the stated payload the same in their stock presentation.
     
  8. Mar 22, 2011 at 8:37 AM
    #8
    Simon's Mom

    Simon's Mom Wag More Bark Less

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    maybe canada has a soft ride tsb? :p:D:)
     
  9. Mar 22, 2011 at 8:42 AM
    #9
    OZ-T

    OZ-T Quite an experience to live in fear , isn't it ?

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    Definitely .
     
  10. Mar 22, 2011 at 8:47 AM
    #10
    Kingfrog

    Kingfrog [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I would guess through Toyota research they were getting far more complaints in Canada for the bed and heavy loads..Maybe more snow? or maybe more people carry heavier loads. I NEED a truck. But I don;t need a truck to carry 600lbs everyday. I need it to carry light but bulky items now and then. Yard waste, mulch bags, If I decide I need a stronger bed I would rather prefer the Firestone airbag system so I can go back to the softer and more level ride when the bed is empty which is most of the time.

    I don't believe TSB are "flaws"....for EVERYONE. In fact they are not flaws at all. They are TOOLS. They there for those who have a specific issue that has been documented a number of times and a particular need that is not apparent on every vehicle. People can drive themselves insane reading TSBs.

    EVERY SINGLE product manufactured from Computers to Cellphones including the machines than manufacture the machines that manufacture them have "TSBs" to save DOWNTIME. Common issues,

    Like Software bugs, Some people experience certain ones others don;t because they may not use that part of the SW. Is the SW "flawed"? not for those who don't use every single feature.
     
  11. Mar 22, 2011 at 2:51 PM
    #11
    skistoy

    skistoy Make mine a Double!

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    A TSB is usually issued because of customer complaints about a product.

    Once the manufacture issue's the TSB, it implies that they agree with the customer.

    And yes they are helpful to maintenance technicians, usually for approval of repair.

    THE PROBLEM IS

    When you go to the dealer and say

    my truck sags with not a lot of weight in it

    And they say its normal, or prove it, etc.

    A customer should not be BADGERED for a KNOWN PROBLEM with a TSB

    So to say a TSB is more for technicians than owners is B.S.

    Im sure the technicians know about the problem way before the TSB is issued.

    You decided not to get the spring TSB, But decided to get the vibration TSB,

    Seems the TSBs are more of a factor for you, than your technician.
     
  12. Mar 22, 2011 at 3:20 PM
    #12
    Kingfrog

    Kingfrog [OP] Well-Known Member

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    No the point is I heard a sound and did some research. I will still have to prove I have the vibration indicated. I found the TSB AFTER I noticed something awry not BEFORE. I saved myself a lot of time and aggravation because I know there is a fix and can point that out to the service adviser, and then and maybe save the tech diagnostic time and thus the dealership money. Most trucks may or may not have this issue. Mine does. If I really wanted the TSB fix i would drive to the service department with 1000lbs of sandbags or a heavy trailer and PROVE I need it.

    The Spring TSB is not an issue for most people. If I and I would suggest most in this forum had not KNOWN about it I and they would have never inquired about it. I simply don't view it as a flaw. A HARD ride WOULD be a flaw for my needs. I want a truck with a car ride and have it. I can afford an airbag system if I need to carry a load.

    If I go to the dealer and say my truck sags with a lot of weight in it. I rightfully should have to prove it. Just because there is a TSB on a problem it does not mean Toyota has to provide the solution without it being a demonstrated problem for my specific use.

    Many are going for that fix for a free lift..Nothing more and I am sure TMC is aware of that and asking the dealers to ensure people are using their trucks in a manner to actually BENEFIT from the springs more than aesthetically.

    What you claim is a "known problem" is only a "problem" for those who really are not aware of a TSB and demonstrate the problem to the dealer with a sagging truck. They then may look up any TSBs and then take care of that customer

    Why aren't people getting the vibration TSB done? And discussing it as much as the spring TSB? Easy because it adds nothing aesthetically to their trucks and if they don''t have the specific issue they don't want their truck messed with.

    I am not reading a whole lot of threads with people getting ALL the TSBs done...only the aesthetically pleasing ones.....
     
  13. Mar 22, 2011 at 4:44 PM
    #13
    skistoy

    skistoy Make mine a Double!

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    just going by your thread title.

    and you mention TSB alot

    hense, TSB are for owners

    not just technicians
     
  14. Mar 22, 2011 at 6:43 PM
    #14
    blackbox

    blackbox Well-Known Member

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    Considering the current sorry state of the service industry in this country, I will gladly accept all the help I can get. TSB's are a useful tool when dealing with incompetent, lazy, and/or illiterate service people. TSB's are for the technicians, but they CAN be valuable for consumers also.
     
  15. Mar 22, 2011 at 7:41 PM
    #15
    Kingfrog

    Kingfrog [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. I am not saying they aren't valuable to me. In fact the vibration I discovered turned up to be fixed by a TSB..That's a GOOD thing, Fix will be fast and easy. TSBs are a benefit to customers ...But they are not indicative of all flaws that have to be fixed.

    People who get the spring TSB and never carry a load but only get it to get a free lift actually hurt the service for the rest who are put through the third degree every time they have an issue that is reflected in a TSB, and cause them even more issues having to prove they have a problem becasue so many really do not but feel entitled "just because"

    I was ok'd by Toyota for the Spring TSB but decided against it because I don't really need it and a better solution if and when I do are the adjustable airbags. I have not gone down the list of TSBs and become all OCD about my truck. If I discover an issue I check the list first and HOPE there is a TSB.

    I don't look for a TSB then the problem. That is not their intent.
     
  16. Mar 22, 2011 at 7:55 PM
    #16
    KAWAIANIANI

    KAWAIANIANI Well-Known Member

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    Good posting, I agree with the OP. There is a reason the TSB is not mailed to all owners of a vehicle. That is usually why they state in the intro for certain vehicles between these vins or years etc... experiencing these problems. Alot of people seem to think its like a recall and has to be performed. The TSB is if a complaint can be confirmed and meets the criteria. It is used to reduce customer down time and dealer expense as well as enhance the customer experience with accurate repairs. Some technicians dont keep proficent in their field hence the reason some dont know about it. Service writers also dont usually know all the TSB's because it is not usually for them to know, granted it would help them with customer satisfaction. People that badger the service dept with TSB and no actual complaint actually make it harder for people who actually have an issue with the vehicle and ruins the process for all.
     
  17. Mar 22, 2011 at 8:01 PM
    #17
    hogeyphenogey

    hogeyphenogey Rotted frame = New Truck!

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    What is a TSB?

    Sponsored by 50StatesLemonLaw.com - Your Source for Lemon Law Information for all 50 States

    A technical service bulletin (TSB) is an advisory issued by a manufacturer for use by dealership service departments. Most TSBs are released during the first year that a vehicle is offered or the year following a redesign, in order to address areas that might have been overlooked when designing the car.

    These bulletins differ from recalls in that they are not considered safety or emissions issues and they usually apply only when your vehicle is in its warranty period (whereas a recall is "open" until the work has been performed). TSBs frequently (but not always) address a recurring problem and include illustrated instructions for repair, a list of the parts needed, the warranty status and the labor charge.

    If a problem addressed in a TSB is particularly widespread, the manufacturer may decide to send out "Owner Notification" letters - in this case, the manufacturer has a good idea of which vehicles (by VIN) will experience the problem.
    Service bulletin content varies in severity - you'll find TSBs that cover hard-to-start engines and clunking transmissions alongside those that offer remedies for inoperable cigarette lighters and slight paint imperfections. And some TSBs merely outline updated service procedures and troubleshooting strategies, or offer hints for installing something as simple as a front license plate holder.

    And, of course, the best thing about finding a TSB that seems to cover a persistent problem in your vehicle is that dealerships will make the repair for free, provided that

    • Your vehicle is under warranty;
    • Your service advisor and/or technicians are able to confirm that the problem exists.
    Rather than going into the dealer with the TSB number in hand, it is more effective to come to the dealer with a complete description of your vehicle's particular problem - what are the exact symptoms, and when and where did/do they occur. For example: Suppose you have a cold-running concern with your vehicle. Don't drive the vehicle into the dealer before work in the morning and expect technicians to be able to duplicate the problem - the vehicle will be warm. Instead, bring the vehicle into the dealer the evening before and let it sit overnight. In short, someone in the service department has to be able to duplicate the problem, and the TSB number and a brief description of the problem won't always do it.

    If the technicians and your service writer seem to be having trouble resolving a problem with your vehicle and you've already given them the most complete description possible, then you might say politely, "Someone suggested that this TSB might cover it." "Did anyone try this TSB?" A customer who makes an effort to sound intelligent (that is, provides a full description of the problem and demonstrates a history of regularly maintaining the vehicle) and to treat service writers (and technicians) with respect is more likely to find resolution for her vehicle's problems.



    I think this pretty much sums it up- found this as #7 on google. Keep this in mind- you walk into a service department with a specific issue with your specific problem. I cannot possibly know every TSB, Recall, or answer to every question on every car my dealership sells. I need to know as much about as many cars as I can- you need to know what your one vehicle is doing. It does not hurt for customers to know about their vehicles, and a TSB can certainly be informative, but it is indeed applicable only if issues are duplicated on the lot or while testdriving with a customer. I cannot tell you how funny the line about driving your warm car in for a cold-start issue really is. Happens at least once a day for me. Also, keep in mind a TSB MAY NOT solve your problem(s). I like an educated customer- it can give creedence to what I tell him/her, but a person who barges in demanding a TSB fix and is a self-proclaimed know-it-all can make the job much more difficult. And yes- you probably know more about cars and working on your vehicle much more than me, but there's no need to blow me up because of your car's issues. I didn't make it or brake it and believe me when I tell you- I want it fixed right the first time. There are steps I have to follow though. See you in the service department!
    (not an a-hole service writer, and unfortunately, not in Toyota either...)
     
  18. Mar 22, 2011 at 8:07 PM
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    STR8_BEAST

    STR8_BEAST Well-Known Member

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    trust me, I was entitled to my tsb :)
     
  19. Mar 22, 2011 at 8:09 PM
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    KAWAIANIANI

    KAWAIANIANI Well-Known Member

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    Good job from a Service manager.
     
  20. Mar 22, 2011 at 8:13 PM
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    Leggo

    Leggo slow is smooth, and smooth is fast.

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    I had the steering shaft TSB performed on my 2010. Was that because I was one of a few posers who like to be able to steer the truck without feeling like the front end is falling out?
     
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