1. Welcome to Tacoma World!

    You are currently viewing as a guest! To get full-access, you need to register for a FREE account.

    As a registered member, you’ll be able to:
    • Participate in all Tacoma discussion topics
    • Communicate privately with other Tacoma owners from around the world
    • Post your own photos in our Members Gallery
    • Access all special features of the site

Upgraded alternator 3.4

Discussion in '1st Gen. Tacomas (1995-2004)' started by EricU, Feb 13, 2015.

  1. Feb 16, 2015 at 11:40 PM
    #21
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 Wheel Bearing Master

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Member:
    #71846
    Messages:
    10,811
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Bill
    Navarre, FL
    Vehicle:
    1997 Tacoma 4X4 AKA "Blue Beast"
    best wheel bearings around! www.marionbumper2bumper.com
    Typically a stock alternator will put out normally about 40-50% of it's max output, when at idle speed. A Tacoma alternator spins at 2X engine speed, so if your CS130 has the same diameter pulley as the factory alternator, it is spinning at 5000RPM when your engine is at 2500RPM.

    Step 1 when dealing with flicker, make sure that ALL of the grounding points of the battery, as well as the amp, are clean and tight. If you do NOT have the factory body grounding strap, then you need to get one and install it between the cab and the engine block.

    Having a second battery gives your electrical system a much larger reserve to draw from. Batteries have a solid output. Meaning that when you demand more power in short bursts (i.e. havin' dem' 12s a thumpin') it can supply that demand to keep them going. The alternator has a solid state regulator which increases the field coil as higher demand on the electrical system is requested. (turning on your high beams, turning the AC blower onto high, etc..) However that solid state regulator takes a few milliseconds to make the actual demand begin.

    Now here is the important part here: You don't see the lights flicker because the alternator is not putting out sufficient AMPS. You see the lights flicker because when the amp is not thumping, the voltage is at nominal capacity of 14.7V, and when the bass hits, it causes a minor drop in VOLTAGE before the regulator in the alternator can respond. The brightness of a bulb at 14.7 volts is different from the brightness of a bulb at 12.6 volts. And it is also different when the voltage is 14 volts. Just .7V drop is enough to see a change in a light bulb's brightness.

    So why do some high output alternators have less, or no flicker? Because their regulators are designed to have a faster voltage response time, as well as a higher voltage "peak hold", so when the alternator IS spinning at idle, the voltage is steady enough to compensate where the flicker is less noticeable. If you were to actually look at your parking lights (assuming they are not LED) close up while your amp was pounding the speakers, you WOULD still see some flicker in them, even with a high output alternator, because the VOLTAGE does fluctuate, just not as much as it does on a factory alternator.
     
    jammer, Luv my yota and Jaysjammin like this.
  2. Feb 17, 2015 at 2:30 AM
    #22
    NightProwler

    NightProwler Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Member:
    #116470
    Messages:
    3,364
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Harlan
    Maricopa, Az
    Vehicle:
    '01 Prerunner, '03 cbr600rr, '09 R1
    Yes! This is making more sense now:) I assumed it was a case such as this. But wasn't sure exactly how to explain it. Also keep in mind, that I'm speaking of not the halogen headlights. I have all led running lights, hid projectors. And then all my led light bars to which I'm experiencing these issues with specifically. My amp isn't the greatest but I do however see some very slight, i should say 'dimming' effect versus 'flickering', when the bass hits. But my issue is most apparent when the voltage changes like you spoke of now that you explained it.

    The best (seemingly most accurate and reliable) voltage meter I have is the aftermarket tpms screen I have which I watch closely. I have two other votalge sources but they show much lower values. Anyways, when DRIVING with no light bars on, I see a steady rate of about 14.2 volts. when I flip all the bars on, it drops only a hair to about 14.0 volts. If I slow for a turn or come to a stop, is when I start experiencing the (although very little yet still noticeable) 'dimming/flickering'. At that point the voltage drops to about 13.6-13.8 or so. If crawling around trails it's down to about 13.5 or so and sometimes the flickering isn't as apparent but the lights do seem to be a bit dimmer. Usually without the radio blasting. I think it's not as apparent when crawling at lower steady speeds because it's operating at a somewhat steady rate... If the lights are turned off for a while, then flipped back on after a couple miles, they turn back on with 100% brightness and no flickering. This is why I'm thinking I need the second battery. I feel I'm on the verge, if not already needing, that extra reserve from the second battery to even things out and not make it struggle... Also note, that last summer all these issues were even more apparent here in az. I believe it doesn't operate as efficiently in hot weather. Thus the reason they state the 'hot' amperage output. It seems negligible, but it does seem to have a noticeable affect. We shall see this summer...

    So I assumed it was still getting enough amps, and was wondering if it was another cause besides the output of the alt. Which now makes sense of how it operates at different rates and scenarios. I think I'm pretty much set with my alt. Just need that second battery so it can all operate at a steady rate. Having all my lights hooked up to the reserve battery. No?

    Here's the specs of the alt I have too.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2015
    Luv my yota likes this.
  3. Feb 17, 2015 at 8:39 PM
    #23
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 Wheel Bearing Master

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Member:
    #71846
    Messages:
    10,811
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Bill
    Navarre, FL
    Vehicle:
    1997 Tacoma 4X4 AKA "Blue Beast"
    best wheel bearings around! www.marionbumper2bumper.com
    Wow, their alternator doesn't hit peak output until FOUR THOUSAND engine RPM?? Damn! That is high.
     
    jammer likes this.
  4. Feb 17, 2015 at 8:57 PM
    #24
    NightProwler

    NightProwler Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Member:
    #116470
    Messages:
    3,364
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Harlan
    Maricopa, Az
    Vehicle:
    '01 Prerunner, '03 cbr600rr, '09 R1
    Hehe.
    This was listed above the pic on their site;)

    "Please note that there is a 3-3.5 to 1 ratio.
    EX: 100 Engine RPM = 300 Alternator RPM."

    So it's operating at about 2500-2600 rpms for peak @ 180. About 700-750 rpms for idle @ 130.

    Or 1300-1400 rpms or so for an 'optimal' peak output around 170 as anything higher is negligible and rarely seen unless you're racing it;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2015
  5. Feb 18, 2015 at 2:22 PM
    #25
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 Wheel Bearing Master

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Member:
    #71846
    Messages:
    10,811
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Bill
    Navarre, FL
    Vehicle:
    1997 Tacoma 4X4 AKA "Blue Beast"
    best wheel bearings around! www.marionbumper2bumper.com
    Ah, so they get their higher output by spinning the alternator a lot faster. Lot of wear on them bearings! I know I keep bragging about my alternators, but I like them because they only have a 2:1 ratio on the pulley, so at idle (700RPM) the alternator is only spinning at 1400RPM. Peak output is about 3000RPM alternator speed, which is only 1500RPM engine speed. A lot less wear on the alternator bearings in my opinion. But yeah, in the interest of full disclosure I am talking about my alternators. Hahaha.
     
    Luv my yota likes this.
  6. Feb 18, 2015 at 3:34 PM
    #26
    NightProwler

    NightProwler Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Member:
    #116470
    Messages:
    3,364
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Harlan
    Maricopa, Az
    Vehicle:
    '01 Prerunner, '03 cbr600rr, '09 R1
    Yeah I really regret spending so much on it. It's nice. But I would think these puppies are meant for race vehicles. Sdhq highly recommended it, so I went for it. Seeing as I couldn't find any members whom had one or any reviews on it...

    And we shall see how long she lasts. Got a 2 year warranty. Had it for about almost a year now. I did end up having to buy another lower alternator bracket arm. Shortly after install it cracked where it's bolted on the slot of the arm. Idk if that was from previous wear or not. But it's a super tight fit and doesn't vibrate or anything. Had to remove the dipstick to get it in too. Anyways.. if it fails on me, you'll be the one go to for my next one;)
     
  7. Feb 19, 2015 at 9:34 AM
    #27
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 Wheel Bearing Master

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Member:
    #71846
    Messages:
    10,811
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Bill
    Navarre, FL
    Vehicle:
    1997 Tacoma 4X4 AKA "Blue Beast"
    best wheel bearings around! www.marionbumper2bumper.com
    If they are meant for race vehicles then yeah, I could see the bearings being able to handle the fast spin. Was just surprised to see such high spin speeds at first. lol.
     
  8. Mar 3, 2015 at 11:52 AM
    #28
    Shadetree

    Shadetree Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2010
    Member:
    #48053
    Messages:
    751
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    BiLL
    Bozeman, Montana
    Vehicle:
    2011 Access Cab 4x2
    Locking Tailgate & Gas Cap and extra bed D-rings
    I would add that if the electrical load is 100 amps and the alternator output at idle is 50 amps, then the 50 amp difference is made up from the battery. If a 100 amp hour (C/20) battery is being used in this example, then the load can be satisfied for approximately 90 minutes at 77 degrees F due to the "Peukert Effect" of the battery. Less time if the ambient temperature is lower. IMHO, an alternator upgrade will probably be a better choice that a dual battery setup depending on the duration of the aftermarket electrical load, driving habits or deep cycle battery sizing.

    A second challenge is the absorption charging output of the alternator's voltage regulator. If the voltage regulator was set for a wet low maintenance starting battery, it might undercharge a wet "Maintenance Free" or AGM battery and a gradual buildup of lead sulfate occur. If this is the case. a periodic "top off" with an external charger will solve the problem by fully charging the battery. If the voltage regulator was set up for a wet "Maintenance Free" or AGM starting battery, then a wet low maintenance could be overcharged and the battery will require more water.

    For more information on charging, please see Section 9 in the Car and Deep Cycle Battery FAQ on www.batteryfaq.org.
     
    cruiserguy likes this.
  9. Mar 4, 2015 at 11:31 AM
    #29
    BoilerAnimal

    BoilerAnimal Welding GURU

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2014
    Member:
    #142817
    Messages:
    9
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Chris
    Alabama
    Vehicle:
    Tacoma Gen 1
    6" lift, 3" body lift, header, cold air intake, chip re program,
    And went from 85 amps to 160. Plug mod, bolted right up, took about 2hrs. Running Stereo with 2 800 watt amps, 5 KC Daylighters, plus regular lights, no light blinking, nothing. Works great! Buddy of mine says I put an "ambulance pkg" on the Tacoma! LOL...
     
  10. Aug 6, 2018 at 9:31 PM
    #30
    Sperrunner

    Sperrunner Respect the International Dibs Law

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2018
    Member:
    #245334
    Messages:
    30,412
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Miguel
    Berkeley, Ca
    Vehicle:
    2004 Tacoma S-Runner 1987 toyota van 96 4wd frame
    Wd40, zipties, duck tape, and my hopes and dreams
    @BartMaster1234 ^^
     
    Running Man likes this.
  11. Aug 6, 2018 at 9:32 PM
    #31
    Running Man

    Running Man flat faced submarine and 4 runner

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2017
    Member:
    #211024
    Messages:
    17,419
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    James
    Mission Tx
    Vehicle:
    1995 tacoma sr5 RIP 2001 t4R Limited
    nothing on the runner yet
    so everyone from the table is doing this than... v6s at least
     
  12. Sep 25, 2018 at 8:43 AM
    #32
    burntkat

    burntkat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2018
    Member:
    #263029
    Messages:
    1,304
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Phillip
    Vehicle:
    97 Extracab Tacoma
    It looks like people use the CS144 alternator for this. I have to wonder if an AD244 would work instead? It was a bolt-in operation for the upgrade on my 5.7 in my S10, which originally used a CS144. That gave me a 150-amp alternator for about $100. Had to change the plug of course.
     
    Running Man likes this.
  13. Sep 25, 2018 at 8:56 AM
    #33
    Running Man

    Running Man flat faced submarine and 4 runner

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2017
    Member:
    #211024
    Messages:
    17,419
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    James
    Mission Tx
    Vehicle:
    1995 tacoma sr5 RIP 2001 t4R Limited
    nothing on the runner yet
    that would be touching the frame
     
    burntkat likes this.
  14. Sep 25, 2018 at 9:51 AM
    #34
    burntkat

    burntkat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2018
    Member:
    #263029
    Messages:
    1,304
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Phillip
    Vehicle:
    97 Extracab Tacoma
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

    Oh well, at least I have a reason for having kept the old CS144 I took out of my S10! Now I can get it off the garage floor without tossing it out. Free upgrade for the win!
     
  15. Sep 25, 2018 at 12:34 PM
    #35
    mechanicjon

    mechanicjon They call me "Jonny Stubs"

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2016
    Member:
    #203828
    Messages:
    7,873
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jon
    Scottsdale Arizona
    Vehicle:
    04 Tacoma 4dr SR5 TRD Prerunner
    Fabtech AAL, Billie's wrapped with 880's , Tundra big brake conversion, bully bars and Pioneer DDin Stereo/dvd with exterrnal usb ports. 240K and going strong.
    20180419_201508.jpg
     
  16. Sep 26, 2018 at 7:28 AM
    #36
    burntkat

    burntkat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2018
    Member:
    #263029
    Messages:
    1,304
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Phillip
    Vehicle:
    97 Extracab Tacoma
    With that much room, I have to say, I think an AD244 will fit. Will have to investigate this soon. I will let you guys know.
     
    Running Man likes this.
  17. Mar 19, 2019 at 5:18 PM
    #37
    TacoBessy

    TacoBessy Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2017
    Member:
    #231740
    Messages:
    33
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tom
    Creswell O.R.
    Vehicle:
    00 tacoma
    2wd to ifs manual hubs, Arb front locker, supercharger.
    Does it fit?
     
    Running Man likes this.
  18. Mar 20, 2019 at 5:55 AM
    #38
    burntkat

    burntkat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2018
    Member:
    #263029
    Messages:
    1,304
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Phillip
    Vehicle:
    97 Extracab Tacoma
    Sorry, I haven't been bothered to check it lately. Have been addressing other issues.
     
    Running Man likes this.
  19. Mar 20, 2019 at 8:09 AM
    #39
    burntkat

    burntkat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2018
    Member:
    #263029
    Messages:
    1,304
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Phillip
    Vehicle:
    97 Extracab Tacoma
    Meant to add- I have to do an oil change soon, which will have me in that area. Will eyeball it and see if there is enough room. If I get crazy, might even wrestle the one off the S10 and see if I can swap it out No promises, though- I have been needing to replace the belts for about 6 months now, and that isn't done even though I have two new belts in the back doing me no good lying there.
     
    Running Man likes this.
  20. Mar 20, 2019 at 10:31 AM
    #40
    StAndrew

    StAndrew Wait for it...

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2010
    Member:
    #30950
    Messages:
    8,233
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Chris
    Hampton Roads, Va
    Vehicle:
    SR5 4x4TRD
    Intake, exhaust, lift. Typical stuff.
    @burntkat

    The Totota Power Steering belt fits the CS144 IIRC but its a bit snug. The Toyota alternator belt is a bit too small.
     
    Running Man likes this.

Products Discussed in

To Top