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Weird clutch problem, need help

Discussion in '1st Gen. Tacomas (1995-2004)' started by SwampLizard, Dec 6, 2018.

  1. Dec 6, 2018 at 1:29 PM
    #1
    SwampLizard

    SwampLizard [OP] Member

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    Hey folks, the clutch in my 96 taco has been giving me issues. I replaced the master and slave clutch cylinders a couple months ago to fix the original shifting problem and it’s been fine since then. Now suddenly I’m having issues shifting again, my pedal isn’t soft like it gets when there’s a master/slave cylinder issue but it’s having the same problem putting it into gear. Especially in first and second gear. It sort of feels like I’m not fully engaging the clutch, as if I was trying to force it into gear with out pushing down on the pedal.

    I checked my fluid reservoir and don’t seem to be losing any fluid, and there’s no signs of leakage underneath. A buddy of mine suggested it might be a clutch plate issue, but I wanted to get a few more opinions. Google hasn’t been terribly helpful.

    Thanks
     
  2. Dec 6, 2018 at 1:31 PM
    #2
    Clearwater Bill

    Clearwater Bill Sometimes when I close my eyes, I can't see.

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    have you pulled the shifter and looked at the fitting on the bottom (I forget the name :anonymous:)
     
  3. Dec 6, 2018 at 4:47 PM
    #3
    Glamisman

    Glamisman Well-Known Member

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    does the clutch pedal vibrate during engagment?

    shifter lever bushing underneath the shifter... easy job, check that first.
    bleed the clutch hydraulic system easy job also.
    if those 2 things dont help the disk might not be disengaging fully or sliding on the input shaft easily.

    In the driveway push the clutch in and try to put her in 1st. If you experience difficulty, with your left hand turn the motor off, does she slide into gear now?
    when downshifting into first when it is in neutral pull back slightly into 2nd gear now try first.
    shutting off the motor and/or pulling it into 2nd slightly will stop/slow the input shaft and main shaft enough for the gears to mesh.

    Some people have had good luck with Motul gear oil, the claim to fame is more friction for the synchros so that they work better. I will be trying it in my nephews Ford Escape over his christmas break. 210k on the 5 speed and a slight crash on the 1-2 shift.

    at some point things wear out.
     
  4. Dec 7, 2018 at 4:54 AM
    #4
    Clearwater Bill

    Clearwater Bill Sometimes when I close my eyes, I can't see.

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    A few OE parts from fancy trucks
    Consider Ford XT-M5-QS

    Myself and a bunch of my Solo II running mates found it to be awesome in our not-really-made-for-racing 5 speeds. They were GL4 required boxes and almost always had a notchy 2-1 downshift and 1-2 upshift. After about 200 miles with this expensive elixer, like hot butta.

    I'd done the normal routine of Redline and Royal Purple. Neither of which made any significant change over OE fluid.
     
  5. Dec 7, 2018 at 6:41 AM
    #5
    FirstTimeFirstGen

    FirstTimeFirstGen Less active than most

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    Not enough to have a build thread.
    Wow. I work for Ford and didnt even know this product existed. Most the manual trans I work with (in their diesels) actually take ATF.

    Any concerns with this fluid affecting the longevity of anything else inside, like bearings? I guess it is a MT fluid so it should be fine...
     
  6. Dec 7, 2018 at 7:04 AM
    #6
    Clearwater Bill

    Clearwater Bill Sometimes when I close my eyes, I can't see.

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    Don't feel bad. Seems like it is sort of an unknown. Your parts guy will likely look at you starry eyed too, unless you have a pretty active SVO section.

    Hopefully you can get it for a more reasonable price. I found it to be normal to be 2x the cost of Redline. But in a 3qt trans, worth every penny. Testing showed moving to 50k OCIs (instead of the OE recommended 25k with OE fluid) was not an issue either. That's on a street driven race 2x a month unit.

    Keep in mind it's a GL4 spec. Something not easy to find. Most OTC fluids are GL4-5. I preferred to stay with a straight GL4
     
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  7. Dec 7, 2018 at 7:16 AM
    #7
    Glamisman

    Glamisman Well-Known Member

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    didnt know this exsisted either... just checked Amazon, $25 a quart. This what the description says.

    Motorcraft Full Synthetic Manual Transmission Fluid is a premium-quality SAE 75W-90 gear oil recommended by Ford Motor Company meeting warranty requirements. It is particularly recommended for 1995-2011 MTX-75 and IB5 transmissions, and is also recommended for older transmissions including rear wheel drive that recommend GL-3 and GL-4 type gear oils.

    I like the GL3 and GL-4 rating. When I did the gearbox on my Mazda (Ranger) 5 Speed I had to put in a GM GL-3 or 4, I forget, anyway, I couldnt find anything at the local auto parts stores.
     
  8. Dec 7, 2018 at 7:20 AM
    #8
    Clearwater Bill

    Clearwater Bill Sometimes when I close my eyes, I can't see.

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    My soloII car I mentioned was a '96 Miata. Which to my understanding was a bin sourced truck transmission with a different bell housing, shifter, etc. But the box/guts were the same.

     
  9. Dec 7, 2018 at 7:32 AM
    #9
    Glamisman

    Glamisman Well-Known Member

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    I am looking for a project Miata, a NA or NB that needs work. Straight body is a must, red is a must, if the mechanicals are salvagable that would be best for me.

    The trans in my Mazda pickup was rather a problem child... crappy 1-2 and 2-1 shift. Must have had it out 3 times to check clearances and the only thing that fixed the shitting shift was to replace the entire 1-2 gearset. The synchros "looked" good, the synchro grooves caught your finger nail, they were nice and sharp, the synchro clearances were spot on to spec but as a package, it didnt work. After the gearset exchange, back to normal. I guess it is just one of those things. If I had to pay some one to do all of this the cost would exceed the value of the truck. I sure hope the f'er who stole it appreciates all the work I did!
     
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  10. Dec 7, 2018 at 7:36 AM
    #10
    Clearwater Bill

    Clearwater Bill Sometimes when I close my eyes, I can't see.

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    Keep in mind that red on NA/NBs was not clearcoated. '90-'93 are 1.6 motors, the following years are 1.8.

    '96 has the best OE HP/Wt ratio.

    There were no '98s.

    The '99 and '00 NB heads can be used on an earlier 1.8 as the CAS position can be opened to install the early CAS, which makes base timing adjustments easy.

    If you are not familiar, check out Miata.net and FlyingMiata.com for some fun times.
     
  11. Dec 7, 2018 at 7:51 AM
    #11
    Glamisman

    Glamisman Well-Known Member

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    I plan on a total repaint... strip her down to nothing but bare chassis and paint her the 2017-2018 Mazda metallic red. I will drop in a 1.8 and 6 speed and put big brakes on her. Yeah, Ill have 10k in a 2k vehicle buy hey, its what I want. It will be like all of my other projects, peeps will say you are wasting your time and money until they drive them, then they say how much for her? Thats why I have a waiting list in 3 states and 2 countrys for my next "project". The Tacomas are sold even before I buy them, the other vehicles might take a month of word of mouth sales.
     
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  12. Dec 7, 2018 at 8:03 AM
    #12
    SwampLizard

    SwampLizard [OP] Member

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    No vibrations when engaging the clutch, but it does feel like the disk isn't disengaging. I will try the things you suggested with the shifter bushing and bleeding the line again. I hope it's an easy fix, I don't have a lot of money for parts right now ha. I drove it cross country down to Texas where I'm living now and I've been having trouble since then (it's understandable, it's got 270k miles on it and some things are just starting to fall apart).

    Shifting slightly into second and then into first has been the only way I get it to shift into first lately (while the vehicle is on). When the vehicle is off it shifts very smoothly. I'll look into that Motul gear oil too, I need to check all my fluids again. I checked the master cylinder reservoir and it was low again, but again with no signs of leakage down under.

    Thanks for the reply, this was super informative.
     
  13. Dec 8, 2018 at 7:31 AM
    #13
    Glamisman

    Glamisman Well-Known Member

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    yeah sounds like she just might be wore, damn, but 270,000 miles, thats from here to the moon.
     
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  14. Dec 9, 2018 at 12:02 PM
    #14
    SwampLizard

    SwampLizard [OP] Member

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    The only thing is that I got the original clutch replaced at 230k miles. I forgot to mention that in my original post I think.
     
  15. Dec 11, 2018 at 2:01 PM
    #15
    FirstTimeFirstGen

    FirstTimeFirstGen Less active than most

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    Not enough to have a build thread.
    I was able to get it for $18.79 a quart. We will give it a shot.
     
  16. Dec 12, 2018 at 2:36 AM
    #16
    RysiuM

    RysiuM Well-Known Member

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    Did you check the fork for cracks? My fork cracked around 260k miles. When cracked it was bending instead of pushing the clutch. The bad thing is replacing that stupid 20 dollars part is the same job as replacing the clutch.
     
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  17. Dec 12, 2018 at 2:49 AM
    #17
    fxntime

    fxntime Well-Known Member

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  18. Dec 12, 2018 at 2:50 AM
    #18
    Key-Rei

    Key-Rei Well-Known Member

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    Locker anytime Fog Lights anytime Full LED light conversion TRD cat back Rear cat delete Exaust Y reroute away from actuator Alloy Clutch master 2000 4Runner "Dog Leg" shift leaver Marlin shift seats and bushing Rear seat delete Rear diff breather extension Chrome grille swap Debadge Rear seat delete Honda blower motor beefy plug and wire mod Anytime 12v and USB with volt gauge in bed Blue Sea fuse box Hella AND 70's Caddy horns Low profile recessed hex drain plug swaps Alluminum battery strap 7pin relocated Backup cam on anytime Various other creature comfort and personal taste mods.
    That would explain why you can't blow them up with a stock motor no matter what you do.
     
  19. Dec 12, 2018 at 2:54 AM
    #19
    fxntime

    fxntime Well-Known Member

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    I snagged a 93 cheap with 32 K on the odo 2 years ago, fun little car.

    Trans was a little notchy so I added the Ford fluid, 500 miles or so I could tell the difference. It was 22 bucks a quart at the ford dealer.
     
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  20. Dec 12, 2018 at 2:59 AM
    #20
    Key-Rei

    Key-Rei Well-Known Member

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    OP I had the same issue in my '00 4Runner, same R150 trans.

    I changed the fluid to Redline MT90 and a cup of Marvel Mystery Oil and a cup of ATF then 5k miles later changed it again with straight MT-90.

    After the first day of driving it was 50% better, after the first week it was 100% better, after the second change (and at that point I also installed Marlin Cralwer seat shifter bushings and a new shift lever end bushing) it was 200% better than when I had bough the truck. No lie it pretty much would shift itself at that point, literally falling into gear. (my centering springs were shot)

    Try changing your fluid, my understanding is that gunk buikds up in the dog teeth collars and binds making it very difficult to shift, especially into 1st and 2nd at slow speeds.

    If you can get it to shift with a little throttle and rev matching this is likely your problem.

    Before going through that hastle, or if you know the fluid was recently changed (within the last year or more recently) check the clutch pedal to master cylinder linkage rod for adjustment, the FSM will have hight measurements for you but the easy way is to ensure it is tight at the jamb nut after checking the rod is extened as far as it can be without actually putting pressure on the master cylinder.

    Basically there should be just a hair of wiggle room in the rod between the master cylinder and the pedal clevis, you may need to remove your pedal spring to check this.

    Also the master can be a right beyotch to bleed, make sure you bench bled it with the correct procedure before installing the lines.
     
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