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Where’s the bass?

Discussion in 'Audio & Video' started by skierd, Oct 3, 2019.

  1. Oct 3, 2019 at 11:23 AM
    #1
    skierd

    skierd [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Over the last year I’ve been working on getting my 2017 Tacoma SR’s sound system set up just right. It’s basically my office and I’m in it 5-6 hours a day for work.

    So far I’ve added:
    JL c1-690 two way fronts
    Kicker tweeters
    Infinity 6.5 2 way rears
    Kicker Key180 amp
    Kicker CompRT 43TCWRT102
    10” truck sub with passive radiator
    Kenwood m3001 mono amp

    While waiting for the sub to come in and replace my former sub setup, I had the low pass crossover on the Key amp turned off. I had great full range bass from my door speakers and everything sounded pretty good, to the point I’ve almost considered not having a sub.

    When i installed the new sub, which pulls its signal from the stock head unit as a line level output before the Key amp, I turned the crossover back on the amp and noticed that it sounds like the bass level rolls off on the deeper notes. Mid bass sounds great, but the deep boom that you get a sub for just isn’t there.

    Is it safe to assume that the stock head unit is killing the low notes, but the kicker Key is able to tune around it? And would something like the Audiocontrol LC2i fix the bass range on the sub channel?

    I guess I could also just replace the head unit and the amps with a 5 channel and have a fresh start, but I like the factory interface and look.
     
  2. Oct 3, 2019 at 11:29 AM
    #2
    crashdb

    crashdb Dangerous with an angle grinder..

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    Stuff that my wife thinks I don't need.
    It does sound like the stock headunit is rolling the bass off at higher volumes. A lot of OEM headunits are notorious for this. The LC2i seems to be the go-to for folks to remedy this if they want to stay OEM. Replacement is the other option.

    I'm no expert. Just relating my past experiences.
     
  3. Oct 3, 2019 at 12:41 PM
    #3
    destin_meeks

    destin_meeks I used to fix people's crappy stereos

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    Turning the crossover back on cuts the low bass from being output by the Key. The head unit in 3rd gen’s actually do the opposite of bass roll-off. The stock radio boosts the low end quite a bit, which was surprising to see because we’re so used to factory radios doing the opposite.

    if the sub isn’t giving you the bass you’re looking for, you need a bigger/better sub lol.

    in all seriousness, I was running a 5-channel off the factory radio in my ‘17 for a long time and there’s plenty of bass in the audio signal.

    also, I would double-check that the line-our converter for the sub is 100% for sure tapped before the key and not after. Easy mix-up to make when writing up everything.
    Turn the crossover back off but leave the sub hooked up and see if the sub output changes. If the sub output changes when the key settings are adjusted, then the LOC got tapped in the wrong spot. Easy fix if that’s the case
     
  4. Oct 3, 2019 at 2:53 PM
    #4
    skierd

    skierd [OP] Well-Known Member

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    No LOC, I'm using high level inputs. 110% sure I'm pulling signal before the KEY amp. It's not volume related, its just lower frequencies just seems to progressively fall off in loudness past a certain frequency at all volume levels. It's less apparent with the door speakers, which made me think it was the head unit pulling back. Maybe the amp isn't working right?

    I'd rather blame equipment but hell maybe I just can't hear it anymore? I have had a lot of loud cars and loud systems in my younger days, plus spending thousands of miles on a motorcycle probably hasn't helped.
     
  5. Oct 3, 2019 at 3:22 PM
    #5
    destin_meeks

    destin_meeks I used to fix people's crappy stereos

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  6. Oct 5, 2019 at 8:15 AM
    #6
    5nahalf

    5nahalf I build dumb things

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    Where did you tap in for your sub? did you tap into the rear speakers? if so, then yeah, you wont have much output at all. Tap into the front speakers and you will get bass.


    My graphs that were posted above were for the front channels. I never did a test on the rears.
     
  7. Oct 5, 2019 at 8:18 AM
    #7
    skierd

    skierd [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I tapped the fronts.
     
  8. Oct 5, 2019 at 8:22 AM
    #8
    destin_meeks

    destin_meeks I used to fix people's crappy stereos

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    If you change the key back to full-range (crossover off) does anything change on the sub? Just trying all the troubleshooting options
     
  9. Oct 5, 2019 at 8:32 AM
    #9
    skierd

    skierd [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Nope. The settings on the key do not affect the subwoofer.

    I can’t find it anywhere online now but I believe the mono amp (Kenwood M3001) has a built-in fixed sub sonic filter and for some reason I remember it being at 25 Hz. I need to try to listen to the sub on a different amp to confirm but that’s my next step (new amp).
     
  10. Oct 5, 2019 at 8:48 AM
    #10
    destin_meeks

    destin_meeks I used to fix people's crappy stereos

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    It most likely does have a subsonic filter in that range, but the chances of your sub actually being able to play down that low (and be audible) are pretty slim. 25hz is DEEP.

    *edit* I see you have the 10” loaded compRT box. It definitely can’t dig down to 25hz at any useful volume level. I have the 12” version running on 500W and it struggles to get anywhere near that, so I know the 10 isn’t going to do much that deep
     
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  11. Oct 5, 2019 at 9:07 AM
    #11
    5nahalf

    5nahalf I build dumb things

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    Just a thought, but are the wires on the sub reversed? when the sub and speakers are out of phase, they cancel each other out creating very little bass. Also check if there is a phase switch on the amp.

    Even if it all looks right when you check, try to reverse the wires and see if there is any change.


    There are several places that the wires can get reversed,
    when you tap into the speakers for the line level
    when you plug in the RCA cables (both ends)
    switch on amp
    sub wires at amp
    wires at sub box
    wires inside box at terminal cup
    wires attached to the sub.
     
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  12. Oct 5, 2019 at 9:10 AM
    #12
    destin_meeks

    destin_meeks I used to fix people's crappy stereos

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    The box has so much to do with it, it's crazy.

    For example,
    I'm running the 12" CompRT in the sealed box with passive radiator, on 500w rms.
    In my wife's car, I've got the 10" L7R (square woofer) in the loaded enclosure. The box is about the same height and length as mine, but about 3x thicker, and ported. Much more air can be moved. Her's is also running on 500w rms.

    Playing the same song, at the same volume level (measured by AC voltage at the amp's speaker output, with a multi-meter) her sub DESTROYS mine in terms of how deep it can play, and how hard it can hit. HipHop and music with deep bass, her sub blows mine away. Now if I put on some Motley Crue, mine whoops hers in terms of actual kick in the chest, because a drum's kick drum is more in the range my sub/box is tuned for.
     
  13. Oct 5, 2019 at 9:20 AM
    #13
    skierd

    skierd [OP] Well-Known Member

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    When I was checking my connections the other day, I did see that the rca to the amp was reversed. Swapping it back helped tremendously. Still not as deep as I would like...
     
  14. Oct 5, 2019 at 9:30 AM
    #14
    skierd

    skierd [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Should I punt and get a stealthbox? I listen to a lot more hip hop, rap, and such than I used to so deep bass is more important to me than it used to be.

     
  15. Oct 5, 2019 at 9:38 AM
    #15
    destin_meeks

    destin_meeks I used to fix people's crappy stereos

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    I'm not sure that would fix your issue. I don't believe that is ported, and it's still a 10" speaker. The box volume is probably about the same as your CompRT. And it's only 400w rms handling, same as your current sub.

    When it comes down to it, deep bass needs a big box. Which sucks because I really want the sub in my wife's car. It sounds awesome for lots of music. But I'm not willing to sacrifice my space, so I make due with the sub I can fit.

    Grab a loaded CompR 12" from best buy for $200, strap it in the back seat, and get ready to have the sound you want. You'll lose part of the back seat, but you'll get some slamming deep bass. And if you need your whole back seat, unplug it and take it out for the day. No biggie.
     
  16. Oct 5, 2019 at 9:42 AM
    #16
    skierd

    skierd [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think that’ll work with the kids car seats! Maybe I make a center console to go between them lol.
     
  17. Oct 5, 2019 at 9:53 AM
    #17
    destin_meeks

    destin_meeks I used to fix people's crappy stereos

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    Yeah, that's my current situation.

    Small trucks require sacrifices unfortunately. Just part of it i guess.

    Talk to MrMarv and see if he could build you a ported box that runs the full length of the back wall.
     
  18. Oct 8, 2019 at 7:52 PM
    #18
    Bach88

    Bach88 Well-Known Member

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    Wait what???? You called me out for saying there was no bass rolloff stating there was definitely bass rolloff per your testing now your saying we have bass boost wtf. I demand a formal letter of apology and $20 for the case of beer I had to drink to get over the embarrassment of making what I believed to be a false statement.

    In all seriousness though you should probably edit your posts so ppl don’t waste there money on lc2i/lc7i ect.

     
  19. Oct 8, 2019 at 8:31 PM
    #19
    destin_meeks

    destin_meeks I used to fix people's crappy stereos

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    Post edited! Thanks for the heads up! We live and we learn and we test and test more! If you’re ever in Tuscaloosa to watch your college team play Bama, first round is on me!
     
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  20. Oct 9, 2019 at 7:10 AM
    #20
    hotboatrod

    hotboatrod Well-Known Member

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    Bravo, good job.
     

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