Why no titanium skids?

I just saw the video on the new AEV hot stamped boron steel armor for the ZR2 Bison. Looks like awesome stuff for weight limited mid-sized trucks. It also looks like it will cost a fortune to produce.

It got me wondering why there aren't titanium options in addition to steel and aluminum for skid plates, or even bumpers. Sure it'll be more expensive than either, but it is 40% lighter than steel for 95% of the strength. It can be welded rather than needing to be stamped like the boron steel.

I'd love some armor, but not digging the 800-1000 lbs of weight it'll add.

Is it too flexy? To hard to weld? There has to be some reason aside from cost. Lord knows we spend some stupid amount of money for truck whosi-whatsits.

-Chris

 

here you go. make them out of whatever you want

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/homemade-skid-plates.262726/

 

I think it’s just the money aspect and in turn, there wouldn’t be a market. Steel skids are what, $250 for each skid (ifs, mid, transfer case, gas tank). That’s already $1k. I’m guessing these would easily be double that price for just skids. Then these winch bumpers with hoops are $1500. Double that and then double a $1500 rear and you’re gonna be bumping up close to the $10k range in just armor, no suspension or anything.

Disclaimer: I don’t know the price of titanium. This is a pure guess

 

It’s likely exclusively cost. Titanium is 25-50x more expensive than steel and aluminum. So you are looking at several thousand in material alone.

300 pounds in steel skid plates has the same strength as around 150 pounds of titanium. Titanium sells for around $25 dollars a pound according to google so a simply set of skids casts $3750 in material alone

 

The hardness makes it harder to work with. Titanium chews up tooling quick.

 

In my experience working and manufacturing around titanium, the biggest factor is cost. It’s not negligible, and gets significantly more expensive depending on the size of the plate. You’re talking a minimum of 5 to 10 times the cost just in raw materials.

Next, you have the manufacturability. All the drills used for stainless applications are useless in Ti, and HSS tooling burns out quick. Carbide and non-clapped out mills are a damn near must. It’s much easier from a tooling standpoint to only do steel alloys and aluminum.

Finally the fabrication standpoint. Titanium does not take a bend or form well, and from my understanding is near impossible to weld.

The weight savings you’re looking for would result in probably over 10x the price tag as comparable skids on the market.

 

Carbon steel is about $.50 per pound, aluminum is about $1.75 and titanium is about $25. Of course they aren’t the same density but that should give you a relative idea.

 

Also as previous posters have noted, cost. A 3/16" 3'x4' plate costs over $2k, the same size aluminum plate is less than $300. And that won't even make an IFS skid.

 

@Skierrichy

 

So if I had won that $1.5 Billion lottery I could have some?

I didn't realize ti was THAT much more expensive. I am a diver and there are a lot of Ti parts available that have maybe a 25% premium on them, not a x25 premium!

I figured the tooling difficulty would be the primary driver.

-Chris

 

Fuck titanium. Not as strong as 4130 and not as light as aluminum. If you need something light, engineer it right, out of aluminum. If you need something strong, engineer it right, out of chromoly.

 

In terms of specific strength titanium is pound for pound better than aluminum. So can be made lighter than aluminum in design.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_strength

 

I apologize for being short. It’s just... I knew this article was inbound. My advice to anyone seeking titanium anything on large components (bikes and trucks) is going to be disappointed. Which is why these things are rarely fabbed because titanium has no real advantage in these applications, except for hype to the unaware.


Op wants 40% lighter than steel at 95% of the strength (lol) ok. Do carbon fiber then. Carbon fiber has impressive numbers as well. But like titanium, it doesn’t have the properties of, say, 4130 chromoly that’s been heat treated. It won’t flex, it’ll snap. It’s dog shit when dealing with impacts, like when you’re coming down on a rock.

 

Why not gold???

 

No worries. I think we agree that it makes no sense in these applications.

 

Ti 6-4 which is the most common type ..... is considerably stronger than 4130.

It is very easy to weld with GTAW ...... if you're building sliders ..... an not a space ship.

Think real Armor ( Military )

AISI 4130 Steel, normalized at 870°C (1600°F)

Physical Properties

Metric

English

Tensile Strength

435 MPa

63100 psi

Elongation at Break

25.5 %

25.5 %

Reduction of Area

60 %

60 %

Modulus of Elasticity

205 GPa

29700 ksi



Titanium Ti-6Al-4V (Grade 5), Annealed

Physical Properties

Metric

English

Tensile Strength, Ultimate

950 MPa

138000 psi <--

Tensile Strength

880 MPa

128000 psi

Elongation at Break

14 %

14 %

Reduction of Area

36 %

36 %

 

There's a way to weld it..its not cheap or easy or fast.

 

Solid info, I had been wondering the same thing as OP. I'm not a fabber or anything though, thanks for the info guys.

 

Sure it's easy to weld ...... if you have TIG ...... just change the filler ...... 100% Arg. is fine.

This would work for sliders ...... not space ships.

 

These titanium vs whatever numbers always come up when this topic comes up. I don’t have the energy to source and argue, so I won’t. Frames, cages, sliders... have abandoned this material because while the final product can be lighter and stiffer, it needs to flex, and instead ALWAYS snaps.