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Will, Jhodge, 007, and all engine guys!!!

Discussion in 'Technical Chat' started by chris4x4, Jan 12, 2009.

  1. Jan 12, 2009 at 11:08 AM
    #1
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 [OP] With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

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    I have a theory as to why newer engines have less mpg as opposed to, say, one with 20,000 miles or so. Not to go into the "breaking in" of the engine, but in the last year I have been tracking spark plug gaps at a 30,000 mile change, or there about. Seems the majority of the people that change the plugs at this interval have spark plug gaps of .040 to .041. Min. spec. is .039, with .043 being a max. In my experiance, plug gaps grow about .003 to .005 in 30,000 miles (copper/nickel plugs). My theory is that the plugs from the factory are gapped at .035 or so. This will make the spark more reliable, but it will be a small spark, causeing a rich condition of the engine, as the burn will be largly incomplete. Not enough to trip a code, but enough to affect mpg. As the miles are put on and the gap grows to .040, the spark will be larger, creating a more propperly ignited air/fuel charge. Im thinking this could also be one of the reasons that the engine, in some cases, wont light on the first starting attempt.

    What say you?
     
  2. Jan 12, 2009 at 11:10 AM
    #2
    JimBeam

    JimBeam BECAUSE INTERNETS!! Moderator

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    finally doing something constructive with your free time i see:)
     
  3. Jan 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM
    #3
    mjp2

    mjp2 Living vicariously though myself Moderator

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    ^ :laugh:

    And the theory seems pretty sound to me. The same should hold true when installing an MSD ignition in the same vehicle. More thorough fuel burn should definitely improve power and economy.

    But then I could just be talking out of my ass. Subscribed to follow the discussion.
     
  4. Jan 12, 2009 at 11:15 AM
    #4
    TacoNut

    TacoNut IgnoringChrisWatchingEdLi veVicariouslyThroughMJP2

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    Well that would make sense and also explain the "slow" start. I wonder if any of the toyota techs on here would be able to go pull the plugs from a new 09 and check the gap???
     
  5. Jan 12, 2009 at 11:22 AM
    #5
    lsocoee

    lsocoee My hair is all natural Moderator

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    While, I think you have a good point, I'm going with the break in period. Once the engine has a chance to loosen up it moves easier.
     
  6. Jan 12, 2009 at 11:26 AM
    #6
    sonjay

    sonjay Well-Known Member

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    Your theory sounds solid, I'll be changing my plugs in a little bit, I'll be sure to check the gap on them. Anyone that has owned an air-cooled VW knows the importance of spark plugs, gap, and having many spares!!
     
  7. Jan 12, 2009 at 11:38 AM
    #7
    Janster

    Janster Old & Forgetful

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    Have you measured the actual gap on a bran new plug on a new tacoma?
     
  8. Jan 12, 2009 at 1:07 PM
    #8
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 [OP] With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

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    Not on a new one. But I dont belive they only grow .001 to .002" in 30,000 miles. No way.
     
  9. Jan 12, 2009 at 1:09 PM
    #9
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 [OP] With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

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    Yes, I know....BUT, the engines are mostly broken in at the factory. Not saying they dont "Loosen up", but I have been wondering why there have been some starting issues (slow start, no start, etc.), but after some 10,000 miles, there isnt. Slow starting, and periodic No start isnt going to be caused by a "tight" engine.
     
  10. Jan 12, 2009 at 1:11 PM
    #10
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 [OP] With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

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    Yeah, well........Im tired.
    an MSD ignition wont work on the Tacomas. They only work on central ignition systems (as far as I know) Plus, the stock system puts out more voltage than the MSD's.
     
  11. Jan 12, 2009 at 1:13 PM
    #11
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 [OP] With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

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    Let me know the miles, and gap of the plugs. I have about 15 vehicles that I have checked on, and they all have had spark plugs gapped at about .040 to .041, and their milage has been between 27,000 and 34,000 miles. Im betting yours are gonna be the same.
     
  12. Jan 12, 2009 at 1:16 PM
    #12
    mjp2

    mjp2 Living vicariously though myself Moderator

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    It was more of a theoretical idea than a direct application. Since the coil-on-plug design came out I haven't heard much from the MSD crowd. Good to know that there's a reason for it. :)
     
  13. Jan 12, 2009 at 2:19 PM
    #13
    jhodge83

    jhodge83 Any dog under 50# is a cat and cats are useless... Moderator

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    wat?
    glad to know someone thinks i know what the hell is going on...lol. if i can find my gap chip i'll try to pull one from mine tomorrow and let ya know.
     
  14. Jan 12, 2009 at 2:24 PM
    #14
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 [OP] With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

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    Thanks.
     
  15. Jan 12, 2009 at 2:27 PM
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    JimBeam

    JimBeam BECAUSE INTERNETS!! Moderator

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    yall should check luni's new ones too...with the mileage...see where he's at
     
  16. Jan 12, 2009 at 2:30 PM
    #16
    jhodge83

    jhodge83 Any dog under 50# is a cat and cats are useless... Moderator

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    wat?
    yeah...i've got about 7k miles on mine. his is a lil fresher.
     
  17. Jan 12, 2009 at 2:37 PM
    #17
    itsmyturn

    itsmyturn Well-Known Member

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    sounds good in therory, but i say unplug or add a resistor inline with the coolant temp sensor on a new truck and see if you can lean out the mixture on cold start.
     
  18. Jan 12, 2009 at 2:42 PM
    #18
    tacomaman06

    tacomaman06 Carolina Alliance: Enforcer

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    getting there....
    valid point Chris. sounds right to me..........as when i changed the plugs on my 06.....didnt check the gap on them when i got the truck, but when i pulled them....they were gapped properly.....all right around .041. new plugs that i got............had to gap them myself..even tho they were supposed to be gapped from the factory to .040 or so....they were around .035..........and this is with the copper plugs on the 06 i had and the 04 i have now.
     
  19. Jan 12, 2009 at 2:50 PM
    #19
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 [OP] With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

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    AWSOME! Thats what I was thinking. A .035 gap is gonna give a weak spark. Thanks Will.
     
  20. Jan 12, 2009 at 2:53 PM
    #20
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 [OP] With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

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    I think that would cause more harm than good.
     
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