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wiring help! is this safe???

Discussion in 'Lighting' started by kinkrider101, Mar 19, 2011.

  1. Mar 20, 2011 at 12:02 PM
    #21
    bjmoose

    bjmoose Bullwinkle J. Moose

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    So you used a crimping tool to crimp the m/f connectors onto the wire?

    As long as you're using a good crimping tool your connections should be sound. (Yank HARD on the wires and connectors - there should be NO WAY you have any hope of pulling them off by hand if you've made a good connection.)

    Jamming two blades into one blade connector is sketch. Fork the wire into three and then put one blade receptacle on each of the three ends. For the fork, I'd probably solder and cover in heat shrink. But you could use a pair of two "3 way connectors." Then you can do everything using your crimp tool.
     
  2. Mar 20, 2011 at 12:02 PM
    #22
    bjmoose

    bjmoose Bullwinkle J. Moose

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    Overkill. No need. The main reason to use a relay is if you're drawing current from an existing ignition switched wire in the existing wiring harness. Most such wires are very thin gauge and are NOT designed to supply high current - so if you try to draw high current from them you'll overload the wire, blow a fuse or both.

    As long as you're drawing direct from the battery, and using a switch rated for your amperage, there is NO NEED to complicate the circuit by adding a relay.
     
  3. Mar 20, 2011 at 12:11 PM
    #23
    kinkrider101

    kinkrider101 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    So i should just run a fuse from the switch to the battery? No relays whatsoever
     
  4. Mar 20, 2011 at 12:14 PM
    #24
    kinkrider101

    kinkrider101 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    My switch is rated for at least 20 amps...it said on oznium.com
     
  5. Mar 20, 2011 at 12:24 PM
    #25
    kinkrider101

    kinkrider101 [OP] Well-Known Member

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  6. Mar 20, 2011 at 12:35 PM
    #26
    TacoNut

    TacoNut IgnoringChrisWatchingEdLi veVicariouslyThroughMJP2

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  7. Mar 20, 2011 at 12:37 PM
    #27
    TacoNut

    TacoNut IgnoringChrisWatchingEdLi veVicariouslyThroughMJP2

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    85- Some power source, (Something powered by ignition will allow lights to shut off w/ truck) FUSE
    86- Ground (You put your switch in this wire)
    30- Hot from battery FUSE
    87- to lights
    87a- (not used in your app)
     
  8. Mar 20, 2011 at 1:25 PM
    #28
    kinkrider101

    kinkrider101 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Thanks! Can i use a 30 amp relay. And how do i connect the wires to tje relay if it just has a blade ith a hole in it
     
  9. Mar 20, 2011 at 1:45 PM
    #29
    larryde09

    larryde09 Well-Known Member

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    Seems like BJMoose has it pretty straight. Be sure to check out my Electrical Basics thread (link in my sig). It has everything you need to know about wiring, fuses, switches, relays, etc.

    Regarding relays: BJMoose is right, a relay allows you to tap a factory wire as a control wire because the factory circuit probably can't handle the added load. Furthermore, a relay prevents you from having to run high power into the cab and/or to the switch you have to touch. This way the switch you touch is low power and if a fire does break out it is contained in the engine bay. Relays are also typically cheaper and beafier to manufacture than a switch...abruptly switching off high DC current is destructive to the switch and it will wear it out over time.
     
  10. Mar 20, 2011 at 4:28 PM
    #30
    Anthony250

    Anthony250 E-Fabber

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    Im running two 100 watt lights with a switch,fused, and no relay. Its been safe so far. haha. Gonna add a relay just to be safe. So Id reccomend a relay ,simple to install.
     
  11. Mar 20, 2011 at 4:33 PM
    #31
    kinkrider101

    kinkrider101 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Where do you have your fuse? Is it okay for me to use a 30 amp relay even though my lights only draw 13.75 amps?
     
  12. Mar 20, 2011 at 4:39 PM
    #32
    Dibblit

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    Your best to run the fuse as close to your power source as possible, 14ga automotive wire has a max amp rateing of 30a. If you use a relay you will be pulling about .5a through your switch.
     
  13. Mar 20, 2011 at 4:45 PM
    #33
    kinkrider101

    kinkrider101 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    In that guys write up it said 14g wire has a max at 15 amps so you should use a 10amp fuse
     
  14. Mar 20, 2011 at 4:51 PM
    #34
    Dibblit

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    15 amp is safe working load, 30amp is potential meltdown point

    from what I understand anyway, could be wrong. I searched a bit but I cant find a soild awnser. You cant go worng with going to the next wire size if you are unsure.
     
  15. Mar 20, 2011 at 4:53 PM
    #35
    kinkrider101

    kinkrider101 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Okay so I'm going to run a 25a fuse from the batt to the relay and just use a relay with that fuse, how do I connect the wires to the relay?
     
  16. Mar 20, 2011 at 5:00 PM
    #36
    Dibblit

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    you can either buy a relay pigtail and use butt connectors to connect the wires, or solder the connections, or use spade terminals on the relay. I would use a relay pigtail, and use non insulated butt connectors and then solder the connections and seal with shrinktube if I was to do it... just my .02
     
  17. Mar 20, 2011 at 5:06 PM
    #37
    larryde09

    larryde09 Well-Known Member

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    The numbers I provided in my writeup are conservative for the novice and assumes the least efficient insulation possible. The problem with choosing wires is that so many factors are involved: quality/efficiency of the insulation, solid or stranded core, ambient temperature, length of the wire run, how many in the bundle, etc.

    Most of the rated ampacities you'll read about are in "free air" which means it is the only wire (not bundled) and the ambient temperature is fixed at 30 degrees C (~86 degrees F). Be sure to check out the links in my writeup for more information....This link provides a quick guide (http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/amps-wire-gauge-d_730.html) while this one provides more info for improved insulation efficiency (http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_12/3.html). The third reference (http://www.stormcable.com/uploads/Wire_conductors.pdf) goes very indepth about bundles and efficiency.

    From the second link, you'll notice that a 14G wire with the least efficient insulation in free air can handle 25 amps. However, we if assume it is in the engine bay (warmer than 85 degrees F), then the insulation is further derated. I don't feel like doing the math, but let's say it is only good up to 20 amps. Then assume that it is run with another wire (maybe the ground wire carring the same current), now the heat from the 2 in the same wire run share heat therefore further derating the amps to maybe ~15 amps. Although these are estimates off the top of my head, you'll quickly see why I chose the numbers I did.

    Long story short...running bigger conservative wires is safer than concerning yourself with insulation quality and wire runs.
     
  18. Mar 20, 2011 at 5:12 PM
    #38
    kinkrider101

    kinkrider101 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I've got a lot of wiring to do, radio shack didn't have a 25amp fuse for the battery, they only had 20a and 30a. I should probly run 10 or 12g wire to terminal 30 in the relay?
     
  19. Mar 20, 2011 at 5:15 PM
    #39
    larryde09

    larryde09 Well-Known Member

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    Try an auto parts store. Did you already purchase the wire or did it come with the light kit?
     
  20. Mar 20, 2011 at 5:27 PM
    #40
    kinkrider101

    kinkrider101 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    The lights came with no wiring, so I had a bunch of 14g wire laying around and used it for the whole thing, now I'm trying to make it. Safer, I havnt puchased any new wire yet
     
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