cbechtold's Long Travel IFS Crawler Tacoma Build and BS Thread

I'm thinking a good starting point for what I'd want would be 2wd 3+1 Chevy 63s, and remove the overload. For the cost, they perform pretty well with even some smooth body shocks.

 

I ran that setup for years with no issues. A 12 in shackle above the frame would help too

 

I could get behind that. Running a 12" shackle would be interesting since I was originally thinking about 5" shackle.

 

@slander and @malburg114 I agree most of this is apples to oranges comparing desert running to rock crawling. Importantly, @cbechtold I'm not sure how you intend on using your truck, however based on a look at your sig and your parts pile, it seems you want a swiss army truck more leaning towards trail riding. I can relate as I'm building one (lazily) just towards the desert running end of the spectrum - 35's, IFS LT, as much travel without going to links as possible out back.

I think @malburg114 has good advice regarding the longer shackle. Check out @Allex95 who installed 63's on his truck lately and sent me some video. Watch the last 7-8 seconds at .25 speed. You can see the truck running out of up travel.

https://youtu.be/R4LwCKemZ38

Here's a picture of his bumpstops:



You can see based on the compression of his bumpstop and clearance between the bump and the strike pad he has 4" or so of up travel. Also, it's his leaf springs limiting up travel.

I don't know whether @malburg114 ran 63's with the usual shackles included in the kit, it would be interesting to hear what changes a 12" shackle above the frame might have made using the same springs if he did that before adding the extra Deaver leaves in there. Then you could know how big of a difference the change in shackle made.

@slander you know what I typically don't hear grand things about stock replacement standard 7 leaf Deaver packs (usually not supporting weight rather than warping though). 2 things - all of Deaver's products aren't winners like the F67 pack discussed here which is designed as a spring under pack for 1st gens, but which sags under the weight of a relatively light extra or double cab setup. That's why SOA guys can run them without having a super high ride height. Still just as another reference here's a truck running the 7 leaf stock replacement pack and looking way better than the 63's here:

https://youtu.be/0D2dlOo3Dzg

here's even when he runs out of travel out back:

https://youtu.be/jeDa0TuTLxM

That said I acknowledge and like that @Allex95 is just going for it with a new setup and Anthony had been dialing in his truck over a much longer period of time by this point.

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/anthonys-99-tacoma.175933/

What does all of this have to do with a truck that's more oriented towards trail riding you say? Well, supposing @cbechtold wants to go fast through the desert at some point and supposing any setup (stock replacement, 63's with shorter shackles, 63's with longer shackles, or full on Deaver 62 SOA setup) will handle nicely in rocks, after spending all that money on LT in the front, I'd imagine it would be pleasant to match it in the rear.

That said, maybe it doesn't matter.

@cbechtold if you are interested in doing longer shackles and 62's or 63's, here are some good resources:

http://www.off-road.com/trucks-4x4/project579.html

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/rear-setup-first-gen.543193/

https://www.dezertrangers.com/threads/toyota-tacoma-f67-deaver-set-up.239013/

and for what it's worth, while I think MCM is the right way to go as much as you, TC, Camburg, BTF, and JD Fab would all be super beefy setups that would perform great. IMO MCM comes in at #1 for price (almost $1k less than TC and Camburg) and customer service and you can run used Tundra axles (BTF is 4.5 which you'd need to rebuild your existing axles if you didn't have a 3rd).

 

@Dalandser makes some great points and has some good reference videos.

I always ran 63s with the 3 leaf and a Toyota add of leaf and a 6 in shackle below the frame.

I then went to the 63 main and 62 pack below and 6 in shackle below the frame. My front mount is also frneched into the frame.

while I think that first video is a good reference; I think shock valving would fix that and somehow think something is limiting his as it doesn’t seem the rear is moving much. I’ll try to get a video of mine next time but it seems to float in and out of the whoops like the front suspension.

I’m currently using a 2.5x12 in the rear and have about 6 inches of uptravel but I let them go super negative and limited my down travel to not over extend the shocks. I could easily run a 14 inch shock and possibly even a 16 with the right pack.

I think for what @cbechtold is trying to do and paired with the front kit, he could get the rear tuned to outperform the front. It may take more time as swapping leaf springs is a bitch and I hate but there’s some money to be saved in junkyard packs. Now when you get into deaver and custom packs: I feel your into coilover and link money. I was fortunate to find my used pack for 200 bucks but had a broken main leaf which is why I use the 63 main and not deaver.

At the end of the day; a custom pack will outperform a junkyard pack but both will need shock valving and tuning to be benifical. I’d like to see what he comes with up with.

 

Good info @Dalandser ! When I had my deavers I had a build pretty inline with the the OP. Street able truck you can go trail wheeling with. I knew going into it that the 8 leafs deavers weren't exactly great with handling loads, which was fine, but I went with them because the forums said they were "the best". Full disclosure here by the time I bent them into an S I was still IFS on 33s, but had a crawler and running trails an IFS Tacoma should not be on LOL! I also didn't have a traction bar and they would wrap super bad on the street, like yokes slapping each other bad. I swapped them for the all pros which I got used for a great deal, and added some 12" 7100 short bodies in the rear. Still no traction bar and wheeling harder trails than I ever have now and they are holding up great.

Just my .02 based on my experience. Deaver makes good stuff, but for a swiss army knife that could be doing anything from picking up a bed load of mulch at home Depot, to wheeling rock trails to overlanding for a week, I wouldn't get them. Transparently I also have zero desire to tune shocks nor do I really have anywhere to do it "the right way" that cuts into wheeling and drinks around a camp fire time.

 

Did you press the shaft out of the manual hub tube?

I have been reading a bunch of this discussion and was wondering when F67's were being discussed if they were being run in the spring over or spring under configuration since it does seem like @cbechtold does do a solid mix of rock crawling and I was concerned about the loss of clearance due to a SUA setup. Do you know of any common builds or builds I can reference in people running this in the SOA configuration? I was always told c63's was the way to go on the cheap but I feel like our builds align in trying to push an IFS crawler as far as it can go while still being fun going fast.

 

Everyone bringing up some great points.

Makes me want to tune my 2.0x10's to see how much better I could get the rear with a custom pack. Does decent with some weight in the bed and the factory (I think) 30/75 valving.

The one thing to keep in mind is handling while loaded/unloaded in the bed too.
afaik you can't really tune something to handle great in both scenarios. Maybe with some clickers it would be better.

 

@malburg114 will vouch that I am like a broken recordplayer always coming back to this pair of trucks. The first had 63's that were going to get swapped out upon completion of the video (cut to 17:00 or so to see description of the 63's)

https://youtu.be/Di_QBuztdzc

and this one (got to 11:00 to see description of the F67's in SOA)

https://youtu.be/2rTlx96YGWw

Disclaimer is I don't pretend to know anything about rock crawling so maybe these trucks don't do it as well as others on here. That said they handle speed in the desert way better than most LT setups on here. You can see how well they keep their wheels on the ground in whoop sections and don't bounce when jumped - all signs of good tuning.

@malburg114 here's the cost summary of a 62" setup (considering everything is bought new minus tax which often at least a couple items are able to be found used when collecting parts)

$1010 F67's (Should come with u-bolts)
$388 TC 12" Shackles
$163 TC Front Spring Hangers
$59 TC Shack Pivot Gussets
$52 Ruff Stuff U-Bolt Plates

$1672 Total

Of course this isn't factoring in shocks or shock mounts. That could be going from mild to wild from less than $400 with 2.0 x 10 or 12 shocks and a simple relocation crossbar behind the axle to outboard shock mounts with bigger shocks (not much) or 14-16" bypasses through the bed like in the videos. With good skill I agree this does get close to link territory which probably the least expensively built truck on here I've seen that isn't a POS would be this truck (full disclosure, Chris, the owner and builder was just beginning to build and weld during the making of this truck which uses RuffStuff 3 link's kit)



https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/croth-budget-build-thread.372720/

To me the time and skill required to weld on a couple leaf mounts and shock mounts is a bit different than the time and skill needed to 3 or 4 link a truck - and in California removing the fuel system is going to make you have to deal with dishonest people at smog time which feels crappy in my experience. But learning on here and hanging out with people that already make good mods to their trucks will always help reach new levels and it's not to say anyone couldn't link their truck on the cheap and have it perform great. Just more to master throughout the process imo.

@slander I hear you - I have H70's which are the heavy duty version of F67's and am only getting 6.5" uptravel with 2 full size 35" spares, a jack, and some tools so I'll need to get an add-a-leaf. If I planned on making the truck even heavier it wouldn't even be enough. Unless someone plans on running big holes in the desert it's probably not necessary to go all out - that said the 3.5 kit on this truck seems to open a smaller can of worms.

I've also gotten a lot more use with my stock setup 2nd gen regular cab than the 98 can of worms driveway ornament for the 5 years I've been working on it

@betterbuckleup obviously having a ton of weight in the back and then all empty will be a big difference in dynamics, that said desert racing trucks hold 100 gallons (600 lb) of fuel and their shock tuning manages the weight difference from full to empty well. If you are at least keeping a spare and some miscellaneous weight you should be good if your shocks are tuned well.

 

All of this is great information guys! I really apricate it. Definitely gives me more to think about since I do like having options on the table.

First and foremost, I do want to focus on the front end and get it dialed before Summer. I'm not trying to rush anything right now, but it does give me the time I need to make sure the front long travel performs the way I'd like, as well as work out any bugs or kinks along the way. For now, longer rear shocks, a wider rear axle with disc brakes, and slightly longer shackles will have to suffice in the rear for now. The rear end will get another overhaul in the future but as it stands, I do want to focus on one element to this build one at a time. Regardless of what I do then, I'm definitely going to make sure that the rear performs significantly better than it does right now.

This truck is driven daily, see rocks on the weekends throughout the Summer and Fall, and has the occasion snow trip in Winter. I do want to start venturing out to places like Death Valley here and there, so know asking for the suspension to work in both environments is a tall order. From the get go, the truck is going to pushed more towards crawling, but that'll change as I fine tune the suspension overtime.

Yes. I have a new bearing, seal, and snap rings for it that'll be going in this weekend, if not, next weekend. Plan for this weekend is to get the rear axle rebuilt.

 

Do you have part numbers?

I have the 1 ton MC w/ dual booster too (98's came w/ the dual stock and the firewall doesn't accept the single w/o making mods), but my friend Sean building this truck used the Sequoia master that bolts with the 01+ w/ ABS trucks single booster with his truck on 37's and rear disks / Tundra fronts which he really liked.

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/1st-gen-on-37s-long-travel-completion-date-tbd.237989/

https://sosperformance.com/products...er-installation-kit-fits-rear-disc-conversion

 

Bearing - 9090363008
Seal - 9031147013 or 9031147027
Outer Snap Ring - 9052039023
Inner Snap Ring - 9052075002

I'll install everything this week so I can verify which seal works.

Good to hear. I've got the T100 dual diaphragm booster and 1 1/16" master for my set up. Should be a good starting point from what I've read on brakes.

 

We'll see I have 3 other potential setups haha

Modify firewall to allow single diaphragm booster w/ Sequoia MC
1 1/8" GM MC (super heavy - did you find it to be really heavy @malburg114?)
1 1/16" Willwood w/ Sky Offroad adapter

 

What are you doing regarding fenders upfront?

 

Hey Cory, just to make sure, are these the parts for the manual diff tube?

I have one as well that I’d like to swap in, and it seems like this would be a fairly simple thing to knock out ahead of time.

Thanks!

 

Nothing. Just going to leave the stock ones and trim if necessary.

From what I read online, the manual and ADD diff tubes have a few interchangable parts, but I guess I'll find out soon.

 

You will definitely have to trim with the added up travel.

 

Good thing I have a 37" tire at the ready to help trim fenders.

 

Just take the coilover out and go at it haha

 

LT is on hold for the time being. Engine blew a head gasket this morning...