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Choosing 265/75-R16 over 275/70 BFG KO2s

Discussion in 'Wheels & Tires' started by Ted Steel, Nov 18, 2017.

  1. Nov 18, 2017 at 7:57 AM
    #1
    Ted Steel

    Ted Steel [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Hey TW. Looking to replace my factory LT265/70-R16 BFG All Terrain KO tires with KO2s in a slightly larger size. I've been crawling all over this forum for months trying to find the right tire and for me, I've finally decided on the KO2s.

    Is there a reason most people seem to go for the 265/75 load range E over the 275/70 load range D?

    The factory tire is an LRD and while I don't think going to an LRE will be *that* different of a ride, the LRD (50 lbs) is about 3 lbs lighter per tire than the LRE (53 lbs). I actually thought about heading into a 17 wheel just so I could get the LRC (44 lbs), but I'm a fan of the 16" wheel size.

    Given the factory lift on my 14 Baja, I don't think either tire will have an issue fitting. So I'm wondering why the 275/70-R16 isn't a more popular choice in this tire?

    Ted
     
  2. Nov 18, 2017 at 8:44 AM
    #2
    DavesTaco68

    DavesTaco68 Well-Known Member

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    - ICON UCAs, BP51/Kings, SCS wheels, 285 KO2s, Leer 100XR canopy.
    I went from an 265 70 17 E KO2 to a C and my mpg didn't change much, 53lbs to 44lbs, barely any difference. I was getting around 16 mpg with the E and now mid 17 for mpg with the C, thats combined city/hwy. If your in the middle of nowhere a lot you might like having the extra security of the E load. If your just cruising forest service roads and that kind of thing then C or D will be fine.
     
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  3. Nov 18, 2017 at 9:15 AM
    #3
    Ted Steel

    Ted Steel [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Thanks @Traegermaster. Helps a lot.

    Did you notice the E to C difference that much in ride quality?
     
  4. Nov 18, 2017 at 9:50 AM
    #4
    DavesTaco68

    DavesTaco68 Well-Known Member

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    - ICON UCAs, BP51/Kings, SCS wheels, 285 KO2s, Leer 100XR canopy.
    To be honest no, I tend to run around 34 psi, I do have a cap in the back for some extra weight which might help.
     
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  5. Nov 18, 2017 at 10:22 AM
    #5
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Go Hawks!
    Nice job really paying attention to the details, so many do not.

    Note that the 275s you are looking at are smaller than the 265s. 265/75R16 or 265/70R17 are very popular sizes as it is 1" over stock and the largest size you can easily run that does not rub.

    Compare:
    Stock OR: 265/70R16 is 30.6" 38lbs
    275/70R16 is 31.1" 50.7lbs
    265/75R16 is 31.6" 53.6lbs
    265/70R17 is 31.6" 44lbs

    The 265/70R16 KOs that came on the Baja are discontinued and I don't readily see the weight spec. Your best option for K02s is swapping to a 17" wheel and running the C-load 265/70R17s. I've wheeled in sharp rocks for 10+ years on C-loads and never had an issue. C-loads are plenty adequate for our trucks off road, especially on a tire like KO2s with highly engineered reinforced sidewalls.

    Compare KO2 sidewall testing at 0:41:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp5dVUol778

    Rotational weight is the worst kind of weight you can add to a vehicle as it negatively affects, mpgs, power, braking and ride and should be minimized when possible. Going from 16mpg with E-load to 17.5mpg with C-load as mentioned above is a 9% gain in mpgs. Automotive manufactures would kill for 9%. Ford literally spent $1.6 Billion on the new 10spd for the F-150 for a 1mpg gain. If you are paying $3.30 a gallon, that is equivalent to adding an additional $0.30 a gallon to run heavier E-loads. A nine percent power loss is equivalent to loosing 22hp. That being said people put oversized non-optimized heavy tires on their trucks all the time and don't seem to care. Of course many then later post for how to add more power to their trucks and throw away hundreds on things like CAIs and exhausts to try and get power back which doesn't address the real issue.

    Another option to consider for minimizing weight with larger tires and keeping 16" wheels is the 265/75R16 Duratrac C-load at 45lbs. Your Baja wheels are very light weighing 23.5lbs and paired with the C-load Duratrac you'd likely come in lighter than switching to 17s and running C-load K02s.
     
  6. Nov 18, 2017 at 1:37 PM
    #6
    Ted Steel

    Ted Steel [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Awesome, appreciate that. The D's on my truck are already fairly stiff so that's good to hear.
     
  7. Nov 18, 2017 at 2:04 PM
    #7
    Ted Steel

    Ted Steel [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Thanks man. I'm a details fiend. The spreadsheet I have going on tires with weights, diameters, tread depth, etc. is a bit obsessive. :der:

    I hear you on rotational weight. In general, a goal of this next tires/wheel combo is to reduce total unsprung weight and the stats I had on the Baja wheels put it at 27.5 lbs. How confident are you in that 23.5 lbs number? I ask because I've never loved the looks of the Baja wheel - when I saw the 16x8" Method NVs were in the right offset (pretty much net zero change in scrub radius to the Baja wheels) and were only 24 lbs... winner. But I thought I was dropping 3.5lbs in wheel weight, and now I might be adding 0.5 lbs.

    I also hear you on that 9% - it's exactly the kind of math I'm doing. I've been down the 285/75 route in a 6spd Off Road Xterra - it crushed the daily driving experience. Awesome off the pavement though...

    I'm not sure how I missed this tire:
    https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/falken-rubitrek-a-t-tire.507377/

    In a 265/75 it comes in an SL and an LRE, but do wish they had an LT LRC. The Rubitrek looks pretty nice - love the longer, near-continuous center lug as that should help with road noise. But there is next to no info out there about it. I just got back from @Discount Tire Direct (brick and mortar store) and they didn't show they could get it. They are calling Falken Tire Monday to inquire. Hope to get some more info from them on it.

    Regarding the Duratracs, people either love em or hate em it seems. I have a buddy who ran them in an LRC on his 4Runner but got rid of them because of noise. My worn-down KO's are singing like a church choir right now, but they weren't as loud as his Duratracs.

    On that 10 spd tranny, I have a good friend whose M.E. salary was part of that billion. That new Ford slushbox is pretty slick.

    Thanks for the kick ass response. -TS
     
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  8. Nov 18, 2017 at 2:20 PM
    #8
    Armed in Utah

    Armed in Utah Well-Known Member

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    Crashnburn80 !!! thats alot of good tech tire info..........

    I'm also torn between C & E rated tires.... 265-75x16's Cooper AT3's.....Wildpeak LT's.................
     
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  9. Nov 18, 2017 at 6:20 PM
    #9
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Go Hawks!
    You say obsessive, I say informed.

    I am pretty confident the Baja/Pro wheels are 23.5lbs, I'll have to double check the source, the 17" TRD beadlocks that I'm running weigh about 27.5. Maybe the source of confusion?

    If you really wanted to keep the weight off, you can run the Duratracs in stock size, 265/70R16 at 42lbs but they are not an LT. I'd go with LT if you take your truck off road.

    Analyzing all the details, the 265/75/R16 Duratracs have a Q speed rating good to 99mph. Yes that is higher than most would drive in their Tacoma, but the Tacoma is capable of exceeding the tires max speed rating. The KO2 in C-load have an S-speed rating good for 112mph which is beyond the limiter.

    If looking at switching to a 17, you might consider the 4runner pro wheels that weigh 25lbs, they come in a few different colors and are somewhat reasonably priced:
    http://trdparts4u.toyotaofdallas.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=-10165
    If taking your truck off road with aired down tires, wheel durability should also be considered. OEMs are fine, but for ultralight wheels consider the risk of cracking the wheel depending on your off road terrain preference. Mainly only a consideration for rocks.

    Re the Rubitrek, for 265/75R16 you are looking at about the same weight as the Duratrac, except the Duratrac is an LT tire and the Rubitrek is not. I'm not actually a big fan of the Duratrac, but they do a good job in making a wide spectrum of size and load ratings. KO2s are a better engineered performance tire IMO. I just wish they offered more load variations in their sizes to provide lighter options.

    And yes, for a daily driver the driving experience is important. If it is a trail truck or only weekend warrior it may not be as important.
     
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  10. Nov 19, 2017 at 11:53 AM
    #10
    Ted Steel

    Ted Steel [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I do take the truck off road like most of the people on this forum. I don't rock crawl, but the truck sees its fair share of dirt. So an LT is likely the way to go.

    I hear you on the Duratrac but it's just too much tread for what I need. I commute to work 50 miles one way and do frequent trips to the mountains, so living with the Duratrac noise just isn't something I feel like doing.

    I'm sure some people reading this will think, "WTF, just get the E's in a 16 and call it a day." It is probably where I'll end up, but I hate that there isn't a larger selection of C-rated tires for our trucks. I really don't understand the gap in the market. I'm actually surprised Toyota spec'ed the Baja and 2015 Pros with an LRD.

    I've looked at the 4Runner SEMA wheels, but do want to stick with 16's. That's 100% just a personal preference on my end. The Methods are pretty tried and true, and while they are an "also ran" wheel (i.e., pretty popular), I dig em.

    Appreciate all the feedback. It's really made me consider "what the hell do I really want". Your avatar says Vehicle Design Engineer. Mind if I ask for who?
     
  11. Nov 19, 2017 at 5:27 PM
    #11
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 Vehicle Design Engineer

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    I hear you on the Duratracs and the lack of ideal C-load tire sizes. Check out the Toyo ATIIs, I think they’ll be in line with what you are looking for, I considered them when looking at KO2s. They have the 265/75R16 in C-load (also P and E), though their spec sheet isn’t great and does not include the weight, so you’d need to do some homework.

    It is great to do the research so mods are done correctly to minimize negative impact for best overall performance. I suspect Toyota’s D-load was partially an options problem looking for a more aggressive tire while likely being constrained by their supplier. If it wasn’t a special trim level option tire, I suspect they would have chosen something different.

    The Vehicle Design Engineer was what I got my degree in. The big employer out of the program was Paccar (Kenworth and Peterbilt trucks) which wasn’t really my thing. I work at an engineering data visualization and analysis software company that’s main focus is aerospace CFD. Basically a bunch of people smarter than me who literally have PhDs in rocket science.
     
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  12. Nov 19, 2017 at 5:39 PM
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    GDT

    GDT Well-Known Member

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    Cooper at3, 265/75r16, 46lbs, and a damn good tire, but if you need a bro looking sidewall then I guess it falls a little short.
     
  13. Nov 21, 2017 at 4:36 AM
    #13
    scottiediver

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    getting 265/75/16 BF Ko2s on this week. spent much time researching and I'm throwing the dice on this one. I too read some had issues and other not. fired threw on Faulken Wildpeaks with 17's he has had an issue with stock . I'm a daily driver with occasional off road but nothing serious. love the bfs that came with the truck. almost 70K on them but their bologna but time to change and I wanted to add some aggressive tire. yeah i'm sure mpg are going to suffer a bit but I'm a light foot so I'll post back once i have some numbers. Bj's club had the best price for the convenience.
     
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  14. Nov 21, 2017 at 10:51 PM
    #14
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Go Hawks!
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  15. Nov 22, 2017 at 5:58 AM
    #15
    Ted Steel

    Ted Steel [OP] Well-Known Member

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    A week that is supposed to be quiet at work has blown up on me. Thanks for the great info @crashnburn80 and others that have responded.

    I ended up ordering the BFGs. I live on a ranch and don't want to risk a P-rated tire. So it's Es for me. Went with the 265/75-16s. The stock tire is 49 lbs so I'm going up about 4 lbs per tire. If they suck, I'll find an alternative.

    I'm pretty lightfooted with the skinny pedal in this truck so hopefully won't see that much of a difference in mpg. Been floating around 18.5 mpg combined so we'll see. Hoping the off road pros outweigh on road cons. Time will tell...

    I know exactly what game I'm playin here too. I spent a good bit of money to reduce 10lbs from a clutch in the form of a sintered iron race clutch (for a racecar, not the Taco!) and 25 lbs switching to an aluminum flywheel. That 35lbs net was immediately noticeable in how quickly the motor spins up and down. Rotational weight = performance killer.

    But... the plus side is these new shoes should crush it in the dirt.
     
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  16. Nov 22, 2017 at 8:35 AM
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    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Coming from the Baja with D-load tires the relative negative effects will not be as significant vs the rest of us that had ultra light P-load tires stock.

    When calculating mpgs with your new setup, don’t forget to do the math to factor the larger tire diameter in relation to your odometer reading. :)
     
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  17. Nov 25, 2017 at 9:23 AM
    #17
    dman100

    dman100 Well-Known Member

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    I too am looking at balancing durability, weight etc as I am due to replace my OEM 265/70-16's soon and don't really want to get new 17" rims, swap TPMS etc. Pretty much had my mind set on 265/75 load range C, or even 265/70 load range D Hankooks, but wondered about the 275/70-16 load range D KO2. Seems like a good way to get KO2 quality with less of a weight penalty than going to an E tire. Does anyone know if they would rub on a stock height truck with stock rims?

    BTW @crashnburn80 I used to design stuff at Paccar (Peterbilt, when they were still in California, with some testing at corporate in Renton). It was a great place to pick up real-world skills after college. That was back in the '70's when half the trucks we built still used bias-ply tires.
     
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  18. Nov 25, 2017 at 3:44 PM
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    Ted Steel

    Ted Steel [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Just got back from the tire store @Discount Tire Direct (brick and mortar though). Photos are a bit grainy cause I had to apply a filter to bump up the contrast, brightness, etc. a bit. Was getting a bit late and the light sucked.

    So far the difference between the BFG KO LT265/70R 16 D-rated (old) and the BFG KO2 LT265/75R-16 E-rated (new) is indiscernible besides the total lack of tire noise. These things are quiet!! Granted my KOs were shot. But the ride quality is pretty much identical - I have only about 20 miles of freeway driving before pulling into home so I reserve the right to change my mind. I have a fresh tank of fuel so will report back woth corrected mpg figures based on the new taller tire.

    More to come....

    20171125_170305-01.jpg 20171125_163430-01.jpg

    @dman100 I had to remove the front flap/mini air dam (pretty sure they are for aero only...) but there is a ton of room with the Method wheels. I'm not sure about a stock 3rd gen with OR wheels but with the mild Baja lift on my truck, there appears to be tons of room. I'm no where near the mudflap or the cab mount, even in reverse with changing grades and so forth.
     
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  19. Nov 25, 2017 at 5:40 PM
    #19
    dman100

    dman100 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. They look huge considering they're just a half-inch taller than stock.
     
  20. Nov 25, 2017 at 11:36 PM
    #20
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 Vehicle Design Engineer

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    While I advocate for running lighter tires, that 275 is wider and shorter than the 265/75R16 KO2. So you are introducing some small increases in frontal area and rolling resistance and running a smaller tire to save a 3lbs. Between the 2 choices I'd run the larger 265/75R16 KO2.

    But if you are open to other tire choices, the Duratrac and Toyo ATII both aggressive ATs available in C-load 265/75/R16 for better weight savings and ride.

    Nice! The engineering design jobs that were available at the time were out of Mt Vernon. Toured the Mt Vernon facility, we actually showed off some of the cars we built for SAE events there. Random funny story. Scheduled to display our million dollar AWD hybrid performance prototype sports car at Mt Vernon PTC, the morning of the show no-one could find the ball hitch to our tow rig. With access to a full CNC machine shop and tons of raw material, we actually made a new hitch from scratch to get the car to the show. (A million dollar prototype car was not going to be driven on the highway for that distance). Got there a little late but made for a good story.

    Actually 1" larger than stock. 0.5" greater ground clearance. The tread and sidewall really help it look more aggressive.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017

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