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Selecting a light weight wheel/tire combo (TRD Rock Warriors & KO2s)

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by crashnburn80, Jul 9, 2015.

  1. Jul 9, 2015 at 9:04 PM
    #1
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    My build goal is to increase the tire size while minimizing negative impacts to vehicle driving dynamics.

    Rotational weight (wheels/tires) is the absolute worst kind of weight you can add to a vehicle as it has greatest negative effects on acceleration, power, mpg, braking and ride. Toyota went to great lengths to make the stock setup as light as possible. The crappy stock BFG ATs rugged trails are only 38lbs, very light, paired with ultra light 23lb aluminum alloy OR wheels. Efforts should be made to minimize rotation weight gain if you care about performance, which means looking at the wheel/tire package as a whole to make informed decisions to minimize weight, and avoiding ultra heavy 1-ton E-load tires.

    End Result:
    IMG_3489.jpg

    Tires:
    I wanted to upgrade my tires to 1" over stock (265/75r16 or 265/70r17) to pair with my upcoming 1.75" Baja lift, and because I care about vehicle performance, I wanted to keep the weight to a minimum. The TRD OR 16" wheel size has some limited options for desirable tires that are 1" larger (265/75/R16) without going to heavy E-load tires appropriate for a 1 ton F-350, not a Tacoma.

    The Tacoma's come stock with lightweight P-load (passenger) tires. If using your truck off road, you should look for upgrading to an LT C-load tire for increased durability. As load rating goes up, so does durability and weight, and inversely ride quality and performance goes down. Unfortunately C-load tires vary in availability depending on brand and size, and it is easy to get pigeonholed into getting E-loads due to availability, which is why you need to do your homework.

    I recently read someone post the difference between 265/70R17 KO2s in C-load vs 265/75R16 KO2s in E-load (the same outer diameter size) was 17.5mpg vs 16mpg. You might dismiss that as only a little over 1mpg, but that is a 9% loss. A 9% loss is huge. If you are paying $3.30 a gallon, that is equivalent to adding an additional $0.30 a gallon to run heavier E-loads. A nine percent power loss is equivalent to loosing 22hp on the stock 4.0. Because you didn't make informed choices up front. That being said people put oversized non-optimized heavy tires on their trucks all the time and don't seem to care. Of course many then later post for how to add more power to their trucks and throw away hundreds on things like CAIs and exhausts to try and get power back which doesn't address the real issue.

    My truck isn't as much of a trail rig as my trucks of the past, I've gone from a dedicated MT tire to an AT due to family duty first. But I still have high demands of the AT in Street/Off Road/Snow. And after the addition of a supercharger, then overdriving the supercharger, and adding TRDs aggressive Baja suspension, I need a tire that can perform at speed.

    AT tire option considerations:
    • Duratracs in C-load, 265/75R16 at 45lbs or 265/70R17 at 44lbs
      In my experience had poor street manners after some wear in the rain (I live in the Seattle area, it rains) and sub-par sidewall protection. Where I wheel in the mountains of the PNW it is sharp volcanic rock, sidewall protection concerns me. The large voids in this tire also tend to make it louder. But it is very available in many lighter C-load sizes, and also in lighter P-load.
    • Original KOs in D-load, 265/75R16
      In my experience drove great on the street but I was not impressed on the trail. The slightest bit of mud made them worthless as they would not self clean. Also not snow rated. Very disappointed based on their popularity. Not available in C-load.
      -Update: sometime earlier as of 11/2017 these tires are discontinued and no longer available in most sizes.
    • BFG KO2s in C-load, 265/70R17 at 44lbs
      Available in load-C only for 17” wheels saving 9lbs savings over the E-load KO2 16" equivalent, 265/75R16s at 53lbs. BFG looks to have made significant improvements to the tires vs the KO with larger tread voids, improved sidewall protection and snow rated.
      Update: After running the KO2s for 30k miles, these tires were amazing in all conditions till about 27k miles, while they have plenty of tread left it is no longer grippy on slick surfaces. They slide noticeably more on in the rain, much like the Duratracs after some wear. I'll swap them out for a new set and and sell the old to offset the cost.
    • Toyo ATII - C-load, 265/75R16
      A moderate AT tire available in C, as well as P and E-loads. Weight specs seem difficult to find. Have not run them.

    I find humorous people refer to the KO2 as a 'Bro' tire. Sure there are mall crawlers out there of all walks that may choose the KO2. But show me an AT tire that is Baja race proven, has true reinforced sidewalls and is specifically designed for aired down driving. Most people see a similar tread pattern to the KO and don't understand the KO2 tires have almost nothing in common than general interlocking tread shape:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp5dVUol778


    Wheels:
    I am a fan of OEM alloy wheels because they are exceptionally high quality and usually relatively light weight, while having appropriate offset/backspacing to fit the vehicle well. The special model TRD wheels also offer improved stance while still maintaining OEM quality. OEM alloy wheels will take sustained off road abuse, and I feel more confident abusing an OEM Japanese made Toyota wheel than inexpensive aftermarket wheels made in China, which unfortunately tend to be the majority. Of course there are exceptions for quality aftermarket wheels, but they are not going to be inexpensive. And many aftermarket wheels tend to be greater than 8" wide, which is not advisable for off road as you are more likely to pop a bead in aired down driving. Most Toyota wheels hit the sweet spot at 7.5" wide.

    Steel wheels are complete garbage and should be put in your recycle bin. Weakest wheel possible, heaviest wheel possible, ultra prone to corrosion, and will deflect under load. If you have steelies swap them out for some inexpensive second hand OEM alloys. I've found like new 23lb 16" TRD OR alloys locally for $150.

    Steelies < Cast Aluminum Alloys < Forged Aluminum Alloys

    Cast alloy wheels are a melted aluminum alloy poured into a mold and allowed to cool. Forged wheels are pressure hammered into shape while in solid state and result in a wheel 3x stronger than their cast counterparts. However forging is far more expensive than casting, but forging results in the absolute strongest wheel you can buy.

    OEM 2nd Gen wheel weights for reference:
    16x7.5 TRD OR: 23lbs
    16x7.5 TRD Pro beadlock style: 23.5lbs
    16x7.5 Trail Team FJ: 28lbs
    16" SR5 Steelies: 32lbs
    17x7 TRD Pro 4Runner "Sema": 25lbs
    17x7.5 TRD Forged Rock Warriors: 27.3
    17x7.5 TRD sport:


    Looking at the combined wheel/tire package:

    I was initially looking at FJ Trail Team 16" wheels with BFG KO2s - until I did the math.
    16" trail team wheel 28lbs + 265/75/r16 KO2s E-load 53lbs = 81lbs.
    Stock combo weighed 61lbs. 20lb increase is unacceptable.

    Viable options for 32" tires compared to stock:
    Baseline stock TRD: 23lbs TRD OR wheel + 265/70/16 BFG rugged trails 38lbs = 61lbs
    Basline stock TRD PRO: TRD OR beadlock wheel 23.5lbs + 265/70/16 D-load BFG KO 49lbs = 72.5lbs
    TRD OR wheel 23lbs + 265/75/r16 C-load Duratrac 44lbs = 67lbs
    Cast 17" TRD Pro wheel 25lbs + 265/70/r17 C-load KO2 44lbs = 69lbs
    Forged 17" TRD wheel 27.3lbs + 265/70/r17 C-load KO2 44lbs = 71.3lbs

    Rather than run a 53lb 265/75/R16 E-load KO2s on heavy 28lb Trail team wheels, I swapped to 17" Rock Warrior wheels to run a 44lb C-load KO2. Meaning I went from a potential 81lb setup to a 71lb setup. Paying attention to the combined wheel/tire weight and running some numbers, I saved 40lbs rotational weight under my original planned setup. This translates directly into significantly better acceleration, power, fuel economy, braking and ride.

    I scored the TRD forged Rock Warrior wheels and extended lug kit new in box for far cheaper than retail off craigslist. Although when I bought them I thought the wheels were 25lbs and was disappointed with the slightly heavier at 27lbs. However, it is still just lighter than the pro wheel setup while running a better larger better tire and stronger wheel.

    Part numbers:
    TRD Forged wheel specs: 17" x 7.5" x 6mm offset, 27.3lbs.
    Wheel part number PTR45-35010, lug part number PTR27-89100

    IMG_3487.jpg

    IMG_3490.jpg

    Going 1" oversized at stock height had very minor incidental contact with front flaps that rubs in reverse. Simply remove these 2 front flaps connected by 2 bolts.

    IMG_3492.jpg

    Some TRD faux beadlocks notes:
    • These TRDs are not real bead locks.
    • It is more complicated for your tire installer. I took mine to the dealer for that reason but negotiated the rate to match my local tire shop.
    • If you go mudding the rings can collect debris which will off balance your wheels.

    What about light tires larger than 265s?

    For those wanting something a little larger than 265s, you don't need to go down the dark path of heavy 275s or 285s that the forum often prescribes. 255/75/R17 in C-load is about the same diameter as 275s while being 10mm narrower than 265s. KO2 255/75R17 in C-load weigh 44lbs (same as 265s) compared to the 275/70R17s that are popular in E-load and weigh 55lbs. The slightly narrower cross section which will also prevent rubbing and needing to do any cutting and welding of your cab mounts (cab mount chop or CMC).

    If you found this helpful, check out my thread on putting together a mild lift to go with these tires:
    https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/baja-tx-pro-kit-icon-aal.385619/#post-10570589
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
    mrcyan, deanosaurus, wi_taco and 43 others like this.
  2. Jul 9, 2015 at 9:13 PM
    #2
    Nickel

    Nickel Well-Known Member

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    does turning tires to black wall out count? How bout added snug top rebel.
    So what was total weight of new setup?
     
  3. Jul 9, 2015 at 9:17 PM
    #3
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    265/70/r17 C-load KO2, 45lbs + 27.3lbs Forged TRD wheel = 72.3lbs.

    Compared to stock:

     
    stealthmode likes this.
  4. Jul 9, 2015 at 9:20 PM
    #4
    Georgeth1022

    Georgeth1022 Well-Known Member

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    This setup looks killer, I have always liked those rims. And the KO2's are kick ass.
     
  5. Jul 10, 2015 at 2:14 AM
    #5
    Lord Helmet

    Lord Helmet Prepare To Attack

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    My favorite rims of all oem rims :thumbsup:
     
  6. Jul 10, 2015 at 3:33 AM
    #6
    ToyRyd04

    ToyRyd04 Taco Transformer

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    No offense.....Great looking wheel setup but, these are not real beadlocks. That decorative ring does not do anything to actually hold the bead of that tire and the ring does not have to come off to dismount/install a tire, although it does help in keeping it looking nice. Inch/lbs has no where near enough clamping force.

    Regardless good wheel & tire combo.
     
  7. Jul 10, 2015 at 5:09 AM
    #7
    mrothwell

    mrothwell Well-Known Member

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    So what do they look like without the fake beadlocks?
     
  8. Jul 10, 2015 at 5:18 AM
    #8
    TRDMountaineer

    TRDMountaineer Well-Known Member

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    TRD S/C, aFe Stage-2 Intake, Magnaflow 15315, Leer 100XQ w/ Tracker II Rack, General AT2 265/70R17, OEM skid, TRD FJ caps, Wet Okole Realtree seat covers, TRD grey shift knob, Weathertech floorliners, Weathertech window visors, Salex glove box+console organizers, Grid-It console lid mod, Lamin-X amber fogs, Craven Speed A-pillar phone mount, Debadged
    Looks great on MGM. I've been considering this exact combo. Care to disclose how much you paid for them?
     
  9. Jul 10, 2015 at 6:01 AM
    #9
    Vassily28

    Vassily28 Well-Known Member

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    Nice wheels, expensive but very nice looking wheels.
     
  10. Jul 10, 2015 at 7:00 AM
    #10
    Nickel

    Nickel Well-Known Member

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    does turning tires to black wall out count? How bout added snug top rebel.
    Looks great!
     
  11. Jul 10, 2015 at 8:46 AM
    #11
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Exactly why I said they are fake beadlocks. Toyota calls them 'beadlock style'. Yes, they are not real beadlocks, and the ring is purely decorative and does not actually clamp the tire to the wheel like a real beadlock.

    $1100 for the wheels, in the factory boxes with the OEM extended stud/wheel lock kit, including a 4 hour drive by the seller and a 2 hour drive by me to pick them up. VS about $1575 for the wheels + stud kit new.

    Here are the tundra 5 lug versions with the rings removed. (I just grabbed the pic online). You do have all the mounting holes in the wheel edge if you remove the rings though.

    rockwarrior.jpg
     
  12. Jul 10, 2015 at 9:15 AM
    #12
    Siblue

    Siblue Well-Known Member

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    Here is a pic of mine without the rings.
     
  13. Jul 10, 2015 at 8:06 PM
    #13
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    I noticed my brakes don't seem as grabby as they were prior to the new tires and wheels. Makes me glad I didn't go with something heavier. I was a little disappointed though because I really liked them the way they were.
     
  14. Jul 10, 2015 at 8:17 PM
    #14
    Kbattlefield

    Kbattlefield Well-Known Member

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    Nice wheels! I'm in Seattle area too but would like to do occasional "muddling" eventually. Do u recommend other tires? I may wait until I do ~3in lift. May save up to do lift and tires/wheels right way. Great combo you have. What mudflaps do you have on your truck?
     
  15. Jul 10, 2015 at 8:34 PM
    #15
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Thanks!

    If you want to play in the mud and drive it as a daily driver, I would go with the BFG KM2s. They are a little heavy but awesome tires. They are lighter in the 16" size than they are in the 17" size if you are looking at the 265 size that I am running. I'm only planing on a 2" lift, so 265s were good for me. I don't want the hassle or weight of 33s on my daily driver.

    Flap writeup is here: https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/flexible-aftermarket-tacoma-mud-flaps-by-rokblokz.377255/
     
  16. Jul 10, 2015 at 8:57 PM
    #16
    Kyitty

    Kyitty Mr. Beard

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    Looks good! Definitely looks like it needs a lift though! Not much clearance there.
     
  17. Jul 12, 2015 at 1:36 PM
    #17
    offrode

    offrode New Member

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    Awesome setup.. i just bought the same truck.... 2015 ...4 door.grey. off road .. I want the same set-up.. can you tell me how/where you purchased the wheels, and lugs. Thanks
     
  18. Jul 12, 2015 at 7:15 PM
    #18
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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  19. Mar 31, 2016 at 11:01 AM
    #19
    tdogged

    tdogged New Member

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    OME lift - 2.5". PTR45-35010 TRD wheels with 275/70/17 Coopers
    I have a 2013 Tacoma Off-Road 4x4. I have a 2.5 inch OME lift on the truck. I installed these TRD wheels (PTR45-35010), with a 275/70/17 Cooper AT3's. The setup works perfectly, with no rubbing. Good tire clearance all around. I think the setup looks great. The one concern I have is that I don't think the factory wheel studs on the Taco are long enough, as the lug nuts only went on about 6 turns, at most. I used the correct TRD lug nuts for these wheels, but I understand that these wheels where made for 4Runners. Does anyone know if the 4Runners had longer wheel studs. I have found a 1/2" longer set online, that is for Tacoma, 4Runner and Lexus 300. I think that the longer set would give me some piece of mind.

    Has anyone else encountered this? Any thoughts or input would be very much appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Tdogged.
     
  20. Apr 1, 2016 at 12:18 PM
    #20
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Welcome to TW! I had mine installed at the dealer since the TPSs had to be swapped. They didn't mention anything about the studs not being long enough but I am now curious, I'll pull one of my lugs off and check.
     
    elliott3 likes this.

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