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Irrelevance

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Builds (2016+)' started by daveeasa, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. Aug 27, 2020 at 1:48 AM
    #21
    caribe makaira

    caribe makaira Well-Known Member

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    upload_2020-8-27_4-48-41.jpg
    upload_2020-8-27_17-10-14.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2020
  2. Aug 27, 2020 at 6:57 AM
    #22
    daveeasa

    daveeasa [OP] Slowest crimp in the West

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    cool, thanks. The blue sea 5025 fuse box I have is six fused outputs off a single power/ground already. Not that I couldn’t buy a different one but I have that from a power tray accessory bundle I haven’t used much of yet. Need to find a good mounting spot.

    The V...A200 at the top looks like a relay but different. That’s a Toyota part? I’ll google it. You da man, as always.
     
  3. Aug 29, 2020 at 1:54 PM
    #23
    caribe makaira

    caribe makaira Well-Known Member

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    The relay question you asked in this post: T7 Towing Brake T harness info
    Is answered here...#21.
    It's not a "Toyota" relay. This one would work also - https://www.waytekwire.com/item/75552/TE-Connectivity-V23232-A0001-X003-Power/
    I haven't verified 100%, but the brake circuit wire is like a 10 awg and the short distance from the engine relay/fuse box to the cab, in theory, you could UP the fuse.
    There is space behind the driver's kick panel.

    I wouldn't branch off the circuit to the amps to anything else...
     
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  4. Aug 29, 2020 at 10:52 PM
    #24
    daveeasa

    daveeasa [OP] Slowest crimp in the West

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    Today’s efforts below. Also dropped the shift boot collar into a bleach bath since the cup holder surround turned out to my liking.

    5E773C1E-CA5E-4CE9-B08D-4F4CF4AFEC91.jpg
    6CEADFCE-1A11-485F-8807-8BA7C38BF3A6.jpg
    D728D332-ABD6-45D8-823D-823030E35154.jpg
     
  5. Aug 29, 2020 at 11:09 PM
    #25
    daveeasa

    daveeasa [OP] Slowest crimp in the West

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    Thanks for walking me through the details. I didn’t get it the first time. I think I’m dialed in now. I greatly appreciate the hand holding.
     
  6. Aug 29, 2020 at 11:10 PM
    #26
    caribe makaira

    caribe makaira Well-Known Member

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    :hattip:
     
  7. Sep 1, 2020 at 12:00 AM
    #27
    daveeasa

    daveeasa [OP] Slowest crimp in the West

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    Got the pioneer head unit installed for real tonight. One problem with the camera harness though, looks like the 6 pin harness has shrunk in the maestro rr2 so now I have to source a new one or splice the ones I have.
     
  8. Sep 3, 2020 at 11:37 PM
    #28
    daveeasa

    daveeasa [OP] Slowest crimp in the West

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    Update on the Pioneer, all is good now thanks to help from @TiHo and @svermilyea with the maestro camera harness and Germes harness respectively. Steering wheel controls work, Germes controls work, front and rear cameras work. It’s a lot of bulk under the head unit but it looks like the Taco was built for this because there is a big puka right behind the ac controls. And I’m not even using the space above the Pioneer at all yet.

    While doing all this I did notice an unused black plug behind the lower switch panel. I wonder if it’s either for seat heaters or perhaps connections for AT models.

    I also noticed that my 10x trim removal has left a few scars on the plastic where the key goes. I’ll have to try to be a little gentler with that. It’s an odd trim setup having the AC controls tuck in the way they do vs just snapping in on top.

    I had 5 spare bullet connectors from my days of car stereo in the 1990’s and I had already spliced in 3 outputs for the remote trigger coming from my PAC TR4 even though I only have plans for 2 amps. A rather lucky break since I tapped one of the three for the Germes power, then tapped back into the 6v ground for ground. It all works so I assume it’s all ok. There are two grounding spots nearby if I need them. I left things so I could easily return the Germes to duty on a stock etune mmu by reconnecting power and ground as before.

    2B12B76A-40B1-4B8E-B4CF-0EEC2E121080.jpg
    This is the harness in original configuration with bullet connectors spliced in. It would have been a lot easier to just crimp bullets onto the wires but I didn’t have any and I like the double insulated ones I had leftover from decades ago.

    95870985-C4CB-4BE9-B27F-6C42ED490450.jpg
    This is the harness in the revised config where I need to source power and ground. I’ve made a pigtail and crimped on one of my 2 remaining pins from the Germes kit to the 6V camera ground. It appears to work ok. One might hope that this ground is purely for remote trigger and the real Germes device ground is sourced from the T harness but it’s hard to confirm something like that. I could always source a vehicle ground but I did want to keep things as plug and play as possible.

    E44359E2-3BBE-4C9E-B12F-DA30FD469186.jpg
    This is the tap into one of my 3 remote outputs to feed into the Germes unit. I’m assuming this is a low draw remote in trigger and real power comes from the T harness but I can’t know for sure. The PAC TR4 buys me a little insurance that I won’t overload the 300ma max output from the Pioneer head unit which would render it far less useful.
     
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  9. Sep 4, 2020 at 8:32 AM
    #29
    daveeasa

    daveeasa [OP] Slowest crimp in the West

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    Just checked the mailbox and this showed up yesterday. Quite beefy! I wonder if I can source a matching 4 pin male connector. It’s meant to plug directly into the brake controller so I suspect I’m stuck cutting it up but it’s just so pretty...

    AF34E823-5F27-4D31-8B38-1941065DDBA9.jpg
     
  10. Sep 4, 2020 at 8:34 AM
    #30
    caribe makaira

    caribe makaira Well-Known Member

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    Check it for identifying marks & numbers...(the connector)
     
  11. Sep 4, 2020 at 11:48 AM
    #31
    daveeasa

    daveeasa [OP] Slowest crimp in the West

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    I'm assuming it's specific to the Tekonsha brake controller but maybe it's a more generic sort of plug.

    Markings D C B A for { Blue, White (ground), red black }
    Then I PED on the side
    3031-P on a sticker on the red wire.
    I think there's a green insert which might allow for quick de-pinning, gonna try that.
     
  12. Sep 7, 2020 at 10:36 PM
    #32
    daveeasa

    daveeasa [OP] Slowest crimp in the West

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    I got pretty frustrated trying to paint my shift boot collar today, so I dove into the overhead switch panel work. It was more of a challenge than I might have liked but so far no major mistakes. A few tiny nicks from the knife but it had a pretty solid rub already, such are the benefits of purchasing a used vehicle.

    Overhead console post

    I did manage to finish the garage switch wiring to lift master remote and it tests out perfect so that part is golden. Just need to figure out where/how to mount it. Probably try double sided tape assuming there is space for it in the roof. I didn’t leave much room but I can also just cut the case off and hot glue the circuit board to the sunglasses holder. Or maybe even use some standoffs and make it removable.

    F539B510-834B-4507-9F7F-6CD4FAA7ACC5.jpg

    Here is a photo of the shift boot collar which is so far a pretty big failure. Not sure if I should try flat black or just keep throwing more mgm on this and hope it starts to look better.

    511C6CF8-5E26-4D05-941B-EC5D2D86E1F7.jpg
     
  13. Sep 9, 2020 at 3:07 PM
    #33
    daveeasa

    daveeasa [OP] Slowest crimp in the West

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    Here is where I’m at with the center trim piece. I have my fuse panel and trailer brake harness ready for install. Waiting on a high current relay and some spot to tap accessory power which may involve tapping the hot from the OEM POUTLET1 harness with a spade lug and heat shrink.

    Trying to dial in my compact fuse block location. I think just aft of the shifter and fore of the cup holders might be the best location, there are some humps in the steel which a self tapping screw should be able to drill perfectly if it’s not too long. Don’t really want to make any holes in the actual floorboard.

    There is an awful lot of grey in this truck, thinking I might really need a little hint of color to liven it up, perhaps red stitching on the seats when I get to that.

    635DE362-AD83-4911-9EA7-119155CF8336.jpg 5FA4ECAB-3FD1-45BF-A429-48F1A9B9069C.jpg
     
  14. Sep 10, 2020 at 6:12 PM
    #34
    daveeasa

    daveeasa [OP] Slowest crimp in the West

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    Got my relays in the mail today. $1 eBay auction. I hope at least one of them works. @caribe makaira did I do ok?

    32A009E8-DAB3-46A0-97BF-7EFECD97BDC5.jpg
     
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  15. Sep 10, 2020 at 7:04 PM
    #35
    caribe makaira

    caribe makaira Well-Known Member

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    :thumbsup::fingerscrossed::rofl:
     
  16. Sep 13, 2020 at 6:37 PM
    #36
    daveeasa

    daveeasa [OP] Slowest crimp in the West

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    Got the overhead switch panel tough stuff done. Awaiting an illumination solution assist from @Puppypunter since he had a spare set of 24 pin connectors apparently? Trying to decide what (if anything) I want to do with the 6th spot. I have two single garage doors (yeah dumb) so I wanted at least two switches. While I could add a 3rd since the remote has 3 and I soldered all 3, there aren't really any places I would take the truck where I'd get to use it. I could move the 2wd low switch up to the overhead with the other "traction control" switches but it is rather nice being so close to the 4wd selector.

    About to start the tyco high current relay portion of my in-cab power distribution. Hoping to leverage the factory poutlet2 connectors minus the plastic, with some heat shrink for safety as direct inputs to the relay, then +12v from the trailer brake controller harness and an output of 12v ignition into the blue sea compact 8 circuit fuse block which is mounted just after of my shift knob. More on that once it's ready to rock.

    For now, photos of the progress on the overhead console.

    hotglue.jpg hotglueback.jpg quarters.jpg standoff.jpg standoff2.jpg mounted.jpg
    413432F0-076D-4101-B8A1-07965056DD45.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2020
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  17. Sep 13, 2020 at 6:46 PM
    #37
    Puppypunter

    Puppypunter Well-Known Member

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    Subbing. Sorry I'm so late to the party...
     
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  18. Sep 13, 2020 at 7:44 PM
    #38
    daveeasa

    daveeasa [OP] Slowest crimp in the West

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    So I'm hoping the wiring for Tyco V23232-A0001-X003 is the same as any other relay with the exception of no 87A pin for normally closed, which would be as follows:
    upload_2020-9-13_19-22-7.jpg

    And, woah, this is blowing my mind, looks like the colors used in the Tekonsha brake controller harness have blue and black swapped? I was quadruple checking because +12V is labeled as blue in all of Caribe’s diagrams. I think that pretty much means I’m pulling out everything except power from this harness and re-pinning the blue in the right spot.

    Oh, and yes, I will heat shrink the poutlet2 triggers.
    F17E047A-C89D-47AD-BDD1-290A10B658CD.jpg
    BE03423A-7DCB-44D5-AB2D-2531BF49D7B1.jpg
     
  19. Sep 13, 2020 at 11:15 PM
    #39
    daveeasa

    daveeasa [OP] Slowest crimp in the West

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    Got my brake controller harness squared and also mounted the tyco relay. Assuming the obvious ground works out, I’m all good to go except for one little problem. The Tekonsha harness didn’t have enough 12 gauge to get to the cup holders even if I spliced the black and blue together. So, I ordered more 12 gauge GLX. Hoping the color matches. Wondering if maybe I should slap a fuse or circuit breaker on it as well since the Tyco relay maxes out at 75 amps max. Or I could repurpose some old 8 gauge for this but it seems bad form to increase gauge for a mid-span run.

    Decided to order a MAXI fuse holder for the brake controller feed. Mostly because I don’t want to solder 12 gauge. So it will be brake controller male plug to maxi fuse holder to tyco high current relay to blue sea compact fuse block to 3x usb outlets for now and seat heaters in the future. 50 amp MAXI fuse seems like more than enough. I threw down 3x 7.5 amp fuses for the USB chargers for now since that’s all that I’ll have on the circuit. Though at the moment I only have two of them as I’m waiting for delivery of the center console one.
    D992D098-A55A-4FD3-A33D-49CB682F838C.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2020
  20. Sep 15, 2020 at 8:36 PM
    #40
    daveeasa

    daveeasa [OP] Slowest crimp in the West

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    @caribe makaira and I have an ongoing evaluation of my plans (pictured above) to attempt to replicate his circuitry in this post.

    First off, I'm so genuinely grateful for a community of members willing to explain and instruct on subtle details and provide best practices. I've never had the opportunity to formally train for 120v electrician and certainly nothing for 12v auto. The little bit I know I've picked up from task specific work and attempts to replicate and/or refine what I see others having done. With that said, and this is doubly true with software, sometimes new ideas aren't always bad ideas. So, with that preface, I'll continue the discussion.

    Next, let's clearly state the goal. I purchased a 2016 MT with 12v "cig lighter" or "car socket" power in both the dash and the center console. The 2020 models have usb power sockets in the center console. I've since already added a 120v (or 110v, not sure what is appropriate) a/c power socket at the back of the center console. I did this because I had my cupholder trim piece out, primarily to de-chrome the ring. I figured why not do the in-cab 120v while I'm at it since that seemed like a fun "get your feet wet" sort of mod.

    So, I went from 2x 12v power outlets fused at 15amp each to a plan of 3x usb-only power outlets which could be fused at 5amps each I think (but I currently have fused at 7.5amps b/c 3x7.5 is still well within the 40amp rating of the brake controller and the 30 amps I've "given up" by not using my 2x poutlet leads).

    OK, so, what is the rest of the goal? The general idea is, a source of ignition switched power for all future in-cab projects _other_ than car audio amplifiers (which are high current) or really any other high-current needs. I have separate plans for all high current stuff which belong in a separate post.

    So, I picked up an 8 terminal blue sea compact fuse block. It's long and skinny with one stud for input and 8 terminals for outputs. I'm going to use 3 immediately, plan for 2 in the near term future for seat heaters once I free up some budget for leather seats, and want to leave open the possibility of up to 3 more circuits if I decide to install my lsp8 which would turn my 3 + round lower switch panel into an 8-small-switch layout. If I do that, I convert the blue sea round USB into a small switch recycling that circuit, keep my Qi charger, 2wd low switch and usb audio switch, the two seat heater switches, and up to 2 new circuits. Until I do the work to glue in the lsp8, if I want seat heaters, I'd pop out the Qi switch (leave it plugged in and enabled) and the usb audio switch (probably just unplug that for now but maybe leave it plugged in with usb drive for songs if I get organized.)

    So, we've established a purpose for the Tyco high current relay to turn battery power to switched power and a use for a blue sea 8 circuit fuse block. Now comes the question of "where do I put all this stuff?"

    @caribe makaira suggested it would be best suited near the in-cab fuse panel near the drivers kick panel under the steering wheel. I had seriously considered this as my original plan was for 3 add-a-fuse taps to the 2x poutlet circuits and one extra. When I tested out that plan I realized three things:

    a. Tapping the in-cab fuse box means the cover has to be off permanently
    b. Tapping the in-cab fuse box with add-a-fuse means taps on one side feed one way and on the other side feed the opposite way. The overall aesthetic is a bit displeasing.
    c. Tapping the in-cab fuse box has the potential to overload its rated power, without careful consideration of all the circuits.

    I rather quickly abandoned that design for the reasons above.

    Now, on to the crux of the question, given my final decision to mount a fuse block and relay in the center under the cupholders, what factors did I consider vs a location near the OEM in-cab fuse box. Below is my reasoning.

    1. Disassembly: The driver kick location would most likely imply removing the driver's mat, door sill and kick panel. Let's call that about 30s of trim removal. Under the cupholder would require removal of the shift knob collar, shift knob, and trim panel. It's possible to keep the panel attached to the parking brake but not too hard to separate it. Since I have an MT, no wires need to be disconnected. I give this a small advantage to the driver kick location.

    2. Accessibility: The driver kick location requires lying on the driver floor or at least getting low, possibly prone or inverted. It also requires a headlamp or light source even in daylight as it's dark and more difficult to see wires, particularly to tell color differences in the dark. Meanwhile the cupholder location is well lit and easily viewed while seated in the driver seat with right-hand access. I am right handed. I give this a medium large advantage to the cupholder location.

    3. Attachment: The driver kick location is pretty cluttered. A bracket could be fabricated to mount fuse block and relay. Or high strength velcro could be used. Or hot glue or JB weld. None of these would be easy solutions. There isn't adequate sheet metal to attach anything to. Wire ties could be used but would have to be rather strategic. If the fuse block moves over time, connections could work loose and it requires two hands to securely install/remove fuses or connect circuits. The cupholder location comes with a lip which is perfectly sized for the fuse block and it took no time to drill and screw down resulting in an ultra secure attachment point for both relay and fuse block. I give this a medium large advantage to the cupholder location

    4. Wiring: The driver kick location means a harness of at least 8 wires from that location to their destinations, most of which are very near the cupholders. Ideally this would be 16 14-16 gauge wires of different color so it'd be easy to know which is which as far as fusing goes. Each wire would be at least 3 feet if not closer to 5 feet. Some could probably be 18-22 gauge but it'd be tough to predict ahead of time which should be which. This likely implies a loom bigger than 1/2". Meanwhile the cupholder location implies a single 12 gauge (or perhaps 10 gauge, more on that later) wire from driver kick to cupholder location which easily fits in 1/4" loom. I give this a medium large advantage to the cupholder location. In terms of sheer cost, 8x10' of colored 12 gauge glx wire would run close to $100.

    5. Trigger: Since the poutlet2 wires are so tiny and since I'm doing an 8 circuit fuse, I have no direct use/need of the poutlet2 connections directly other than to serve as a trigger for the relay to indicate ignition is on. As a result, for the driver kick I'd have to extend these from cupholder location to driver kick _or_ do add-a-fuse to tap the circuit and feed it to the relay. Meanwhile, for the cupholder location, the wires are already there, already have female spade lugs, and they fit perfectly on the relay trigger pins. All I had to do was remove the plastic connector and store it with the original socket, heat shrink the outside, and I was done. I give this a medium large advantage to the cupholder location.

    6. Disabling: Since the entire circuit feeds from the trailer brake controller socket, disabling this circuit is as simple as disconnecting the connector. That works regardless of the location of the relay and fuse block. I call this a wash.

    7. Maintenance: To be fair, a repair tech might expect circuitry near the in cab fuse box but wouldn't expect it elsewhere. Then again, a repair tech would have near zero reasons to remove the cupholder trim panel. If they did, provided I do an adequate job of ensuring contacts are properly insulated, even dropping a socket wrench shouldn't be a problem. I give this a small advantage to the driver kick location.

    8. Replacing a fuse: This is really where there is no contest as it would be significantly easier to replace a fuse near the OEM fuse box than under the cupholder trim. I give this a medium advantage to the driver kick location.

    OK, that's an exhaustive analysis of the decision. I suspect 4 was the most significant factor in my decision, I just didn't want to run 8 14 gauge wires from kick panel to under the cupholders and if I had, I'd likely have done a terminal block which would have ended up looking almost exactly like the fuse block I have if not even bigger. I definitely contemplated placing the relay in the kick and feeding ignition switched power to the cupholder area but there are a few upsides to having both +12v and switched power all in one spot as far as future switch/power needs go. Maybe I decide I want one USB socket to be always hot even without ignition on. With the relay in it's current home, I have that option. It also fit rather well though I didn't plan for it ahead of time. But most of all, the trigger wires were just sitting right there, the perfect link, already crimped and ready for action, all it took was a small piece of heat shrink and they snapped right on.

    Now, the one thing I'm still debating is, should I go with 10 gauge or even 8 gauge for the run from the maxi fuse in the driver kick to the cupholder space? Or just stick with 12 gauge? It's not relevant to my initial plan of 3x usb at 7.5amps each, 12 gauge at 5' can do 20 amps no trouble at all. But perhaps I should just go 8 gauge for that run and future proof the snot out of it? It just seems odd to have 12 gauge input to a fuse and 8 gauge output, that feels like a violation of the contract. So maybe the right answer is 10 gauge? The bummer is, I already have plenty of 8 gauge from 20 years ago which still looks perfectly good and won't cost me a cent to use. But it's not like 10 feet of 10 gauge is going to break the bank either.
     

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