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Looking for some answers on sound deadening

Discussion in 'Audio & Video' started by Xyphon112, Aug 13, 2016.

  1. Aug 13, 2016 at 9:25 AM
    #1
    Xyphon112

    Xyphon112 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Hey all,

    I'm looking to quiet down my 1st gen extra cab by sound deadening the front doors, rear quarter area where the speakers are and the back panel.

    My questions are about the actual products used to sound deaden. I'm having a hard time making a decision on what to buy because of the words used to describe each of the products.

    My first choice is RAAMmat but I can't quite figure out if the BXT II is a CLD type product and how much of it I actually need. Sounddeadenershowdown is saying that 25% coverage is all that is required for CLD, but RAAMmat is saying to cover the entire door with the stuff. Seems like a waste - do I need to do the entire door with RAAMmat product?

    Second, if I buy a product like Roadkill or FatMat, I have the same question - do I need to buy enough to cover the entire door/backwall/quarter panel and is it a CLD? After I get a CLD type product down I would like to add a mass loaded vinyl product over it. Again, I'm having a hard time with the distinction between MLV and "foam mat" like this:https://www.amazon.com/Noico-Insulation-Self-adhesive-Deadening-Automotive/dp/B00URV8MFC/ref=pd_sim_263_2?ie=UTF8&dpID=41jCeIxwufL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&psc=1&refRID=9N6QDX9WVXK1KG6BYTPV. SDSD says closed cell foam doesn't have any sound deadening properties - why does this product say it does? Will ensolite work as a MLV?

    I'm looking to quiet down my cab enough that the howling from my tires isn't as invasive as it is and be able to hear my speakers better than I do at speed. I don't need my truck to sound like a Lexus but I do want a more comfortable ride and better audio.

    Thanks for the help!
     
  2. Aug 13, 2016 at 9:29 AM
    #2
    Silverspool

    Silverspool Come at me Bro!

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    Really, you'll need to cover up just as much as you want to. The more the quieter.

    BMW back seats are secondary firewalls so not much sound passes from the trunk. I had some rattling so used GT Mat on about 80% lid and 90% of rear deck, 700 watts of bass from 2 10s never made into the cab, I had to rip all of the GT Mat out. Luckily it was in the winter and everything was frozen so the mat came off without much hassle.
     
  3. Aug 13, 2016 at 9:43 AM
    #3
    Xyphon112

    Xyphon112 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. I think I need to stop thinking about it and just buy something and do it. I think I'm going with stinger and an acoustical mat from home depot.
     
  4. Aug 13, 2016 at 9:46 AM
    #4
    Xperivent

    Xperivent Well-Known Member

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  5. Aug 13, 2016 at 9:53 AM
    #5
    Xyphon112

    Xyphon112 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I've seen that and considered it but I'm going to pass on it. I decided to definitely buy something designed for car audio sound deadening. Unless someone can show me that there isn't a difference between frost king and the stuff RAAMaudio sells I don't think I want it.
     
  6. Aug 13, 2016 at 9:54 AM
    #6
    Silverspool

    Silverspool Come at me Bro!

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    Not advocating it because i used it, i used it because it was cheap. Check GT mat from Amazon.
     
  7. Aug 13, 2016 at 9:58 AM
    #7
    Notoneiota

    Notoneiota Claud Bawls molested my cat.

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    I will go on record as someone who went the Frost King route....not worth it. I did the entire back wall of the cab and both front doors. Sound deadening was minimal at best. Not going to spend the time and effort to take it all apart to re-do it. Get the good stuff and don't look back.
     
  8. Aug 13, 2016 at 10:05 AM
    #8
    Xyphon112

    Xyphon112 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. I think I'm going to get one of those and have that be the end of it.

    Needed to hear that from someone. It seemed way too good to be true.
     
  9. Aug 13, 2016 at 4:32 PM
    #9
    rob feature

    rob feature Tacos!

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    You can get away with 25% coverage CLD Tiles from SDS because, IIRC, of the thicker adhesive & thicker aluminum constraining layer. Don explains all that on his website. Only his CLD Tiles are meant to be used that way. He sells sheets (thinner in both adhesive and aluminum) meant for full coverage. But again, read through his page...it explains it all away.

    Maybe read through TS2F's post on testing here. If nothing else, reading the very last post before pulling out your wallet might save you some grief down the road.

    MLV is not foam nor does it pretend to be. Foam in this case is used as a decoupler - to isolate MLV from other surfaces like door cards. MLV is what blocks the noise. MLV is also not compressible where foam is.
     
  10. Aug 13, 2016 at 7:56 PM
    #10
    Xyphon112

    Xyphon112 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Great info, Rob. If MLV is actually what blocks sound, then what the hell is Ensolite? Raamaudio doesn't really explain what it is other than that it quiets things down. If it isn't MLV, why should I even buy it instead of just the BXTII?
     
  11. Aug 13, 2016 at 8:36 PM
    #11
    rob feature

    rob feature Tacos!

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    Ensolite can be used as a decoupler, thermal barrier, and can block some higher frequencies. I believe it's a variety of Closed-Cell Foam. BTXII is just a damper.

    You'd want to use a damper first (I'd personally use SDS CLD Tiles unless you're set on treating the whole truck with a damping layer), then MLV, then something like ensolite or a CCF. You could use ensolite or CCF on both sides of the MLV if you have room. The idea is to decouple the MLV from your door panel or card - where it could transfer or generate noise. I don't have ensolite or CCF in my truck - just CLD tiles and MLV. My 1st gen doors are too tight, but I might go back and put in in the floors when I eventually seal everything up properly.
     
  12. Aug 14, 2016 at 9:05 AM
    #12
    Xyphon112

    Xyphon112 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Awesome. I emailed the SDS guy about all this stuff and never got an answer back so I appreciate your help.

    How many CLD tiles did you use for your door? The calculations for the tiles is a bit odd. In one place it says

    "Add 1 or 2 CLD Tiles (depending on size and inner skin configuration), to be cut into smaller pieces, for the inner skin.
    Add 1 CLD Tile, to be cut into smaller pieces for the trim panel."

    Then it also says:

    "height * width of the sheet metal / 240 will give you the number of CLD Tiles™ needed for 25% coverage"

    Question about your MLV, Rob: does it rattle or make any noise?
     
  13. Aug 14, 2016 at 10:41 AM
    #13
    rob feature

    rob feature Tacos!

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    Don will likely get back to you soon. He gives some of the best customer service in the business. He probably takes weekends like everyone else.

    I used 10 tiles on 2 doors over 3 surfaces and it seemed to be just enough. When I say 3 surfaces I mean outer panel and both sides of the inner panel. I could have used more for the card though and will do that next time. I really needed 15 for just the doors.

    No, I don't hear any noise from it, but it's a snug fit. I have the MLV secured with SDS velcro to the inner panel in maybe 15 locations. That decouples it from the panel. I'm guessing the card being so snug against the MLV helps with any noise.

    [​IMG]

    That's right up against the door card. I'd stick CCF in there if I had the room, but I just don't.
     
    Bridge4 likes this.
  14. Aug 14, 2016 at 2:14 PM
    #14
    Xyphon112

    Xyphon112 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Awesome. Thanks for that. I have a 1st gen as well so I'm in the same boat with the CCF it seems. I didn't realize you should lay CLD tiles on the door card itself. I'll buy a few extra

    Going to buy 15 CLD tiles. How many linear feet of MLV did you buy to get that much coverage of your doors?
     
  15. Aug 14, 2016 at 4:40 PM
    #15
    rob feature

    rob feature Tacos!

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    I bought one of these - 40 square feet for $98 shipped. That was enough to do the doors and the floor up to the hatches (including the hatches) and I still have some left...maybe enough to do the rear side walls. 2 of those would be more than enough to do the whole truck. You'll need to take a tape to your doors if you just want to buy enough for that. SDS will sell it by the foot I think. Shipping the stuff gets expensive though since it weighs a pound/sq foot and it's bulky. That's why I bought a roll. AFAIK, that link above and SDS are the only places to get virgin MLV (no adulterants, won't smell). Err, shops like Second Skin, etc probably use good stuff. You want to avoid the recycled MLV.

    You don't have to do the door card, but it's thin plastic and can resonate, so I stuck some on. You may want to pick up a roll of butyl rope since you're ordering - it's cheap enough. I wound up using it all over the place. I stuck it between the side impact beams and outer door panel. I used it around my speaker adapters. Also used it to cover the hatches in MLV to help block the noise from in there. It's the same butyl used in the CLD tiles and sheets.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Aug 14, 2016 at 6:13 PM
    #16
    Xyphon112

    Xyphon112 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    That's a killer deal on the MLV. I was looking for exactly what you linked - the shipping at SDS makes it not really worth it. Shipping would be half as much as the cost of the whole order! Kind of a bummer. I think I have what I need now. Appreciate the help, Rob. By the way, did all the deadening material make a significant difference for ambient noise from road, engine, ect?
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2016
  17. Aug 14, 2016 at 7:09 PM
    #17
    rob feature

    rob feature Tacos!

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    Glad that helped. Yeah, it made a big difference. I just need to finish the back 'cause all the noise is coming from back there now.

    It's a project so maybe set aside a weekend & take your time.

    Have fun!
     
  18. Aug 15, 2016 at 8:38 AM
    #18
    manethon

    manethon TTAS

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    Pretty good advise. Using a deadener material with a ccf can achieve very good results with a good deadening material. The MLV is also a good option in general.
    I usually host group buys on the Shok deadener but also have it available outside of the group buys
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2016
  19. Aug 23, 2016 at 12:40 PM
    #19
    Papa K

    Papa K Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Aug 23, 2016
  20. Aug 26, 2016 at 4:36 PM
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    nodixe

    nodixe Member

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    What are my options if I was looking to install a vinyl floor replacement? Would I still use cld, decoupler, mlv, decoupler, then vinyl floor?
     

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