The Getaway...Crom's build and adventures

Hit me up whenever you have a need for fasteners. I may be able to hook you up with exactly what you need.
Love your page btw

Text me tomorrow sometime and we'll figure it out.

 

This is close to what I went through. I put in the 5100s and toytec springs and liked the ride over the stock, but as I off roaded I saw the limitations and felt the truck bottoming out, so I did some research and went with the icon shock and coils in the front, kings in the back. I no longer bottom out and the truck seems to handle better off road. I switched to 700lb coils when I got the winch.
The next step is to change to a shock hoop and get the longer rear shocks...but I doubt I will go that route, I think I have reached the limits of what I want to do.

 

Or you can do this:
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/a-different-approach-to-rear-shock-relocation.461500/

 

That is cool, but still, 63 Chevy springs and mo money

 

How much difference is there between 650lb coils and 700lb coils...other than the 50lbs..whats the application.

 

Carries more load up front without sagging
With the steel bumper, winch and, at the time, dual battery setup, I lost some lift.

 

Also remember that the springs are part of a lever arm in the front suspension. So the rate difference is actually more than just 50 pounds. I think the multiplier is around two but I'm not sure.

 

Well, that turned on the light bulb! I had wondered how a pair of springs rated at 1300 or 1400 pounds total held up the front end of my truck, which will weigh 2600 to 3000 lbs depending on load. The multiplier of 2 makes sense. I just ordered 6112's with 650 lb springs. I'll hopefully have them on in a week or two. I'll share my results when I get them on.

 

OK. I probably don't understand spring Rate or lever arm...just saying, so expansion of the ideas help

 

OK. and sagging may not be noticeable to me. I am replacing an 80lb battery with a 50lb unit soon, and I'm still thinking the 650lb springs are good for me with aluminum bumper, winch, lighter battery. all good...but now that I think, that is the lowest corner of the truck

 

Spring rate measures how stiff the spring is and so when they say "650 lb" spring what that really means is for each 650 lbs of additional load on the spring it will deflect by one inch. So if you have a 650 lb spring on your truck and the nose is sagging by putting a 700 lb spring on the spring won't compress as much with the same load. This can effect two things. First the ride quality, with a heavy load and spring that isn't stiff enough the front end will move too much and bottom out. If the suspension is handling more mass it will need a stiffer spring. Second the initial ride height or amount of lift. Add more weight and you lose lift as the spring compresses at rest. Stiffer spring it will compress less and you have a higher amount of lift at rest. There is a wrinkle there though - the spring rate doesn't say anything about the uncompressed height of the spring. So two springs could have the same spring rate (say 650 lb) but have different uncompressed heights (say 9 inches and 10 inches). The longer spring would have a higher lift at rest.

The lever arm is just that the spring does not sit at the end of the spindle where the wheel is. So if the wheel moves by say 1" the spring actually compresses by less than that (say half as much if the spring attaches half way between the the wheel hub and the hinge point of the control arms).

Clear as mud?

 

I pulled a book to look at a few things.

Our trucks use liner rate coil springs. All linear springs are wound from a steel rod into a cylindrical shape with even spacing between the coils. As the load is increased the spring is compressed and the coils twist (deflect). As the load is removed the coils flex (unwind) back to the normal position.

From left to right, Bilstein 6112, Eibach, Toyota stock coil,
photo credit @HB Taco​

The spring rate is a measurement. It tells us how much the spring well deflect (compress) 1" at a certain load. On linear rate springs this is a constant rate, no matter how much the spring is compressed. For example, 600 pounds compress the spring 1 inch, and 1800 lb compress the spring 3 inches. The book says that spring rates for linear rate coil springs are normally calculated between 20% and 60% of total spring deflection.

I found no reference to cantilever or otherwise for a short-long arm suspension. Book might have not touched the subject, but was otherwise quite thorough I thought. I do understand the concept though.

 

Just wanted to say thank you very much for the offer! Appreciated!

 

I have come to the same conclusion.

My truck will stay with 33" tires and mid travel. Truck goes anywhere I need it to, comfortably.

I think this year I will regear, have some skids, and front bumper (for animal strike, and dumb ass driver protection).

And done.

 

For those that want the gory details, levers and installation ratio described here:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/coilovers/Part_1/#LeverageTheory

 

As I was scrolling down I saw this picture and stopped then noticed you did give me credit for it. Thanks. What I can tell you from running the 3 springs is that Toytec / Eibach spring is that it being longer makes a difference (not just the added lift). It had the feeling of having more travel, and in reality the overall travel is limited by the shocks and bumps it had more usable travel. When I was running them on the 5100's I liked it a lot but may be what did in the 5100's as they were toast after about 3.5 years and its not like I tortured them. I wish the 6112 spring was a tad longer then just leave the clip at #1 or #2 position. It would ride better off road than just moving the clip up. OEM replacement I guess cause it would be lifted even at #1 position. Not that its bad as is just sayin. I hope whoever upgrades the springs for the 6112's post pics side by side to see if maybe they will be a little longer or just beefier? Eibach if your listening make a 620lb spring for the 6112 that's the same length. It would be tits.

Yea sure you'll be done? . Yea I was thinking regear is in your future with heavy 33's and a lot of added weight it's got to have made it feel a bit sluggish. Standing by for that write up.

 

Congratulations on the Win Nick!! !!

 

Hey bro! Which 3* shims did you go with? Now that I'm all installed I've got some vibes and I've def got the needle bearing howlin I think. But first things first I'll need another alignment bc it's terrible and the shims. Taking it all apart and putting it all back. Ugh

 

Damn this is useful, thanks a ton for taking the time to post this! For sure going to be using this for help in the coming months.

 

I liked the 5100 with the OME spring. It did well. However, when I went to the E load Toyo tires, the shock didn't do as well with 20lb more unsprung mass acting upon it. It was still okay, IMO.

I had a conversation with Bilstein last week regarding the 6112. I asked them direct questions related to the valving performance of the 6112 vs the 5100.

They would not tell me the valving numbers citing proprietary information which sucks, because it's harder for me to make informed decisions. What I was told though was that the 6112 was 40% more firm on rebound and 20% softer on compression vs. 5100 paired with Toyota coil.

I was looking at Bilsteins off-road shock catalog over the weekend and I have a lot more questions for them. At some point, I'll talk to them again.

And yea, my truck is done for a little while. Not gonna do much over the next 6 months except try and use it.

Thanks.

I got mine from Wheelers. You should be able to get shims at any axle or spring shop.

Welcome!