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you call THAT ABS braking?

Discussion in 'Technical Chat' started by robo (sebring1970), Jan 17, 2008.

  1. Jan 17, 2008 at 4:49 PM
    #1
    robo (sebring1970)

    robo (sebring1970) [OP] robo (sebring1970)

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    I had my Tacoma out on some snowy roads for the first time tonight, and I got to feel the ABS brakes. THEY SUCK. They are way too sensitive. I approached a stop sign at 10 mph and I thought the brakes weren't going to stop me in time before I rolled out into the intersection. The brakes work great without the ABS and I guarantee I could stop the truck quicker without them. They lurch, the pedal pulsates about twice a second. I can hear a little motor whine down each time after I hit the brakes with ABS. But the brakes spend more time off than on with the ABS engaged. What gives? Am I missing something or are these the worst ABS brakes I've ever driven, and I've driven a lot of vehicles with ABS?
     
  2. Jan 17, 2008 at 4:56 PM
    #2
    klown

    klown Tacoma World Ring Leader

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    ABS should only kick in when the computer thinks you're about to lock up the brakes. Once you lock up the brakes it will take forever to stop. So being that the ABS became engaged it must have thought you were gonna lock up the brakes. So either you were about to lock up the brakes or there is something wrong with your ABS system.
     
  3. Jan 17, 2008 at 5:16 PM
    #3
    piercedtiger

    piercedtiger Devout Atheist

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  4. Jan 17, 2008 at 5:36 PM
    #4
    concrete jedi

    concrete jedi Well-Known Member

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    They do take a little time getting used to, but once you do they're ok. Just in case there is something wrong with them, have them checked out, couldn't cost that much, and knowing that all is well is priceless, not to sound too corny . :puke:
     
  5. Jan 17, 2008 at 6:26 PM
    #5
    robo (sebring1970)

    robo (sebring1970) [OP] robo (sebring1970)

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    Thanks for the links. Now I know what I am going to do with this extra in-dash switch I have. Use it to turn off the ABS when it is slippery out! Geez.

    Tacoma switch.jpg
     
  6. Jan 17, 2008 at 6:28 PM
    #6
    piercedtiger

    piercedtiger Devout Atheist

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    You're welcome. Let me know if you have any questions about it. It took some trial and error on my part, and a couple PM's to the guy that figured it out to clarify a few things for me
     
  7. Jan 17, 2008 at 6:43 PM
    #7
    robo (sebring1970)

    robo (sebring1970) [OP] robo (sebring1970)

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    I'm not gonna sit here and pretend that I am some kind of Schumacher, but I have some track time under my belt and I have been to a couple of driving schools. And I can guarantee you that I can stop my truck quicker and in a shorter distance under the snowy conditions outside right now without the ABS. That pretty much defeats the purpose of ABS, if you axe me. A well designed ABS should make a better driver out of anyone, under any conditions.

    In case you can't tell, I'm a little bit steamed. I love my new Tacoma so far, but the main reason I bought it was so I could park my sports cars in the winter and tool around with some 4WD. I did not imagine the brakes would be an issue.
     
  8. Jan 17, 2008 at 6:49 PM
    #8
    piercedtiger

    piercedtiger Devout Atheist

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    Speaking of snow, where do you hail from?

    As a side note, I turned off the ABS a couple days ago on intermittent snowy roads and the brakes seemed firmer.... As in, they were a little harder to push. Worked perfectly fine, but weren't as "squishy" as when I flipped the switch back off. So that may be an added bonus since I've heard people complain about the brakes being soft/mushy/squishy/whatever. I know it felt like it was taking longer to stop with the ABS enabled again, but it wasn't engaging (no vibrating pedal, etc).
     
  9. Jan 17, 2008 at 6:52 PM
    #9
    robo (sebring1970)

    robo (sebring1970) [OP] robo (sebring1970)

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    We had about 4 inches of snow dumped on us here today in Harrisburg, PA
     
  10. Jan 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM
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    piercedtiger

    piercedtiger Devout Atheist

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    Cool. I used to drive through there on my way between NY and SC. Don't remember much of it though! In a hurry to get through, and usually had been driving for 9-10 hours already. :laugh:

    We got a couple inches this after noon. Not too bad, but enough to make a mess. ABS would've been off if I took the truck anywhere after it snowed.
     
  11. Jan 17, 2008 at 7:40 PM
    #11
    Janster

    Janster Old & Forgetful

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    Have you ever been in a serious emergency situation where the ABS saved your azz? You'd think differently about ABS.

    Lots of engineers & testing were done to make sure it works to save your life. It prevents wheel lock up AND you retain steering control.

    I wouldn't mess with the ABS - your life could depend on them someday.
     
  12. Jan 17, 2008 at 7:47 PM
    #12
    piercedtiger

    piercedtiger Devout Atheist

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    No, but I have been in several situations where ABS almost caused an accident and the only thing that prevented that was a lack of traffic.

    Thanks for your advice though. I'll keep my switch thanks. My car doesn't have ABS so I sorta know how to drive without nanny controls.

    Oh, and maybe you missed the post on TN where a guy tested the ABS on a snowy trail without anything to hit. He could NOT stop with the ABS engaging and slid all the way to the bottom of the hill. Threshold braking he could stop every time as long as he could avoid the ABS kicking in. If you have to threshold brake or pump them manually, then it sorta defeats the whole purpose of ABS does it not?
     
  13. Jan 17, 2008 at 7:52 PM
    #13
    piercedtiger

    piercedtiger Devout Atheist

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    Oh, and for the record my ABS is enabled 99% of the time. It's those snowy roads where I'd rather lock up and slide to a stop than skip like a rock across water where it gets turned off. At least if the brakes lock up I know I'll stop whereas with the ABS I'm not so sure.....
     
  14. Jan 17, 2008 at 8:01 PM
    #14
    robo (sebring1970)

    robo (sebring1970) [OP] robo (sebring1970)

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    I hear you. I have done plenty of panic stops with ABS, including racing at Sebring with ABS on a soaking wet track. Another one that comes to mind was in a Cadillac Sedan de Ville carrying 6 guys with me as the driver, and a wet road. For now, I have concluded that the Tacoma ABS is flawed. I reserve the right to change my mind in the future, but I don't think so, lol.
     
  15. Jan 17, 2008 at 9:30 PM
    #15
    rhoppas

    rhoppas Land of Oz

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    I agree that the ABS is flaky in snow conditions. All other times I think it is great. The first time I tried to stop on a very snowy street it freaked me out. I've gotten used to it since but I would rather have it off in the snow...
     
  16. Jan 18, 2008 at 1:37 AM
    #16
    robo (sebring1970)

    robo (sebring1970) [OP] robo (sebring1970)

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    I'll go along with that. The brakes have seemed great up until the snow. I have a lot of respect for automotive engineers, but this is a major glitch. The ABS unloads the calipers too soon and too quick in slippery conditions, to the point where the truck is practically coasting with the brake pedal mashed.
     
  17. Jan 18, 2008 at 4:35 AM
    #17
    colttsi

    colttsi Well-Known Member

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    I'm with Janster on that one. ABS works great and it saved my ass a couple of times here in Quebec where we get a lot of snow compared to you guys.
    There's one thing you gotta keep in mind, when you drive in snow, you need winter tires!!!!! Of course your abs is kicking in when you re in snow with all season tire. I have made a lot of tests and now I have studded nokian hakkapellita 5 under my car and believe me that it is great in snow, abs kicks in only extreme situations and my car runs great in snow.
    The ABS was designed so that you can still steer your car while braking so you can avoid obstacles and I too have got a couple of driving classes under mt belt (with Claude Bourbonnais) and when we were in extreme braking situations, let me tell you that no one could avoid the (people) without ABS at the speed we were going (60km/h) and the direction they were giving us at the last second by lighting a board at the end of a course either right or left.
    So if you want control of your truck in the snow, get some winter tires and don't blame this on ABS system.
    No offense.
     
  18. Jan 18, 2008 at 5:09 AM
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    piercedtiger

    piercedtiger Devout Atheist

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    No offense, but what do you expect me to run the rest of the year? I didn't say snow was the only problem if you read my post. I said ANY loose surface (or more accurately, anything other than dry asphalt).

    I've had the ABS kick in coasting into a gravel apartment parking lot at 10mph or less. To me, that's bullshit. I'm sorry, it shouldn't be freaking out over some mud puddles that dried out leaving a thin layer of dust over hard packed rocks/dirt. Especially not at 10mph!! :mad: I could lock up my mountain bike brakes at that speed with no ill affects.

    Snow is just the more obvious one because it's on EVERY road up here several months out of the year compared to a few dirt roads I travel. Or the rare occasion I get to offroad.

    Surely you can't be suggesting running winter tires year around just to compensate for a piss poor ABS system?
     
  19. Jan 18, 2008 at 6:33 AM
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    Janster

    Janster Old & Forgetful

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    If your ABS is kicking in during a gravel parking lot at 10mph or less - then perhaps you're system isn't working properly or you're slamming the brakes on too hard. Why would your wheels lock up going only 10mph with normal braking pressure?

    The brakes on my 07 certainly don't do that and I have no reason to push my brakes that hard while going that slow.

    When it comes to snow driving - if you've gotta use your brakes that hard (to lock them up), then perhaps you're going TOO FAST for conditions. If you slow down and use more 'engine braking', then you'll coast down slow enough to only lightly use the brakes and the ABS won't kick on. It's very simple.

    ABS is for emergency sitiations - where you need to stop quickly. Quick stops or hard usage of the brakes will cause the wheels to lock up. If you're experiencing the ABS kicking on during normal driving, then there's something wrong with the system or your using your brakes too hard. I've had my truck for one year and I've never even felt the ABS kick in. Not during normal driving and not during snow/ice/winter/dirt driving.
     
  20. Jan 18, 2008 at 7:54 AM
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    TheMaster

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    I didn't know the Tacoma ABS is flawed. I've convinced myself it was a foot massager instead of ABS. I drive on icy conditions in the country and am not impressed with the stopping distance. On the other hand, my Subaru WRX had ABS that actually worked the way it should.

    I'm gonna have a chat with my dealer. :mad:
     
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