1. Welcome to Tacoma World!

    You are currently viewing as a guest! To get full-access, you need to register for a FREE account.

    As a registered member, you’ll be able to:
    • Participate in all Tacoma discussion topics
    • Communicate privately with other Tacoma owners from around the world
    • Post your own photos in our Members Gallery
    • Access all special features of the site

Transmission R-A60 manual transmission information . Your 6 speed transmissiom (WRITE UP )

Discussion in 'Technical Chat' started by gearcruncher, Aug 2, 2014.

  1. Aug 2, 2014 at 6:27 AM
    #1
    gearcruncher

    gearcruncher [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Member:
    #90305
    Messages:
    6,304
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Canadain bumper technician
    Great white North 51.0333° N, 93.8333° W
    Vehicle:
    2010.TRD.SportDCLB4x4Limited leather package
    TRD Sport Rally -5 speed automatic Limited ,Factory heated leather seats ,chrome package,Super white with front windows tinted to 35 % Dick Cepek DC-2 wheels Summer tires - Good year silent armor P265/65R17 Winter tires - Good year P265/65R17 Ultra Ice studded Illuminated 4x4 switch TRD 3rd brake light cover ($20) TRD seat belt shoulder protectors (5). ($50) TRD ...B pillar emblems ($20) TRD rear slider sticker with devil horns ( $6) TRD summer floor matts ($60) TRD steering wheel emblem ($20) TRD floor pedals .($95) TRD shorty antenna ($14) TRD front Windshield emblems ($17) TRD head pillows .($60) TRD head rest protectors TRD door scuff protection $20 TRD floor matt emblems ($40) TRD tow plug emblem . ($40) TRD cigarette lighter with LED.($35) TRD tissue dispenser ($12) TRD front bezel emblems ($9) TRD door emblems ($6) TRD lanyards($9) TRD lisence plates with TRD bolts($50) TRD fender emblems TRD center caps Part Number:PT904-35070-CC ($80) TRD cd
    This post is dedicated to information on the R-A60 manual transmission .All you guys with the 6 speed should read through some of this stuff .
    [​IMG]
    By far , this is one of the largest flaws in the designing of the clutch . Toyota and Aisn should be ashamed as they do not allow enough clutch adjustment to keep the throw out bearing from turning .

    CHECK YOUR CLUTCH ADJUSTMENT !!!!! DONT WAIT FOR YOUR THROW OUT BEARING TO BLOW UP. Some of you are just reading this now and may be too late
    This will help you determine if you need a new bearing .
    Your throw out bearing is semi-centrifical which means its only pre-loaded when you push your pedal down .When your foot is off the clutch pedal , the throw out bearing is NOT suppose to turn and shouldnt be pre-loaded against the pressure plate fingers .The adjustment is made under the dash at the pedal and master pushrod adjustment .As your clutch wears in , the throw out bearing begins to turn all the time and wears the bearing out premature unless a clutch adjustment is made . The chirping you are hearing is the point in time where your throw out bearing begins to touch the pressure plate fingers .The pressure plate is spinning and the throw out bearing is stationary . Your clutch is starting to wear in a little and this is an early warning that its time to re-adjust the clutch and is how these clutches have operated for very long time .
    When this happens , The sound will only be noticeable in neutral with the truck running . When you push the clutch pedal down , the throw out bearing will start turning and the chirping will go away .Some people believe that the bearing is suppose to turn all the time which is totally incorrect .The throw out bearing is "not" designed to be preloaded against the fingers of the pressure plate . Other members make adjustments to their clutch without knowing how a diaphram style clutch works and tell the world they fixed the chirping but really all they did was make the bearing turn all the time - the noise went away so it must be fixed " WRONG " Wrong Wrong .
    A diaphram style clutch works like a pivot . As the clutch disc wears in , the fingers on the pressure plate move towards the throw out bearing . Anyone who has changed out their clutch will notice as you are bolting down the new pressure plate to the flywheel , the pressure plate fingers will move outwards towards the release bearing until you have all the bolts torqued down . The same thing occurs as your clutch disc begins to wear in.THE PRESSURE PLATE FINGERS MOVE TOWARDS THE RELEASE BEARING .This is what is happening to your truck
    Even if you have a new clutch installed at a garage , make sure the free play adjustment is done correctly since some mechanics skip this step and actually use procedures used by Ford to fix your Toyota and accidently send you on your way with a spinning preloaded bearing .Your new bearing is "NOT " going to last as long if its preloaded against the pressure plate fingers because preloading increases as the clutch disc begins to wear .This means that when the clutch is new and adjusted correctly , there is no weight on the bearing . As the clutch disc starts to break in , the weight on the bearing doubles .Print out the FSM free play adjustment and take it to the shop thats doing your clutch job so they have instructions to follow . 99 % of the new vehicles sent from the factory are delivered with a spinning throw out bearing and you wonder why there are hundreds of owners all having the same problem .
    There are other issues with the throw out bearing . The above issue is only one of them . Chirp in neutral is the easiest way to describe it . To further prove my point , read the TSB http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forum...ch-bearing.pdf
    HERE IS HOW TO MAKE THE FREE PLAY ADJUSTMENT http://www.customtacos.com/tech.old...6toyrm/06toypdf/06rmsrc/rm2006ta/02900510.pdf
    If you want to double check that you did the adjustment correctly , remove the clutch lever boot and shine a flashlight into the bellhousing and make sure the release bearing is " NOT " turning while the truck is running in neutral .If the bearing continues to turn , increase the free play under the pedal at the adjustable push rod
    Clutch Release Bearing (sometime called the Throw-out bearing)As its name implies, this is the bearing that releases the clutch. It is often referred toas a "throw-out" bearing. They come on a number of different style carriers. The carriers, in some cases, vary considerably with the particular engine.Because the release bearing only works when the clutch is being released it usually lasts quite a long time. However, improper linkage adjustment or riding the clutch with your foot when driving can wear the bearing prematurely. Normally there should be a minimum of 1/16" clearance between the face of the bearing and the three release fingers or diaphragm spring of the pressure plate when the clutch is engaged. This fact is important and will be discussed further when we get to the part about setting up the clutch linkage.
    REMEMBER... Engineers guide an industry in which the majority of them have absolutely no practical experience whatsoever.
    The throw out bearing must NOT ride on the pressure plate. I challenge ANYONE and that INCLUDES Toyota technicians, Luk clutch representatives, advice or quotes from Toyota trained mechanics or anyone else who say's otherwise. It's BS that "modern" throw out bearings are "designed" to run with zero clearance to the pressure plate fingers. You cant compress brake fluid .Therefore if Toyota requests a pedal free play , the adjustment is needed to prevent the release bearing from turning period . There is no preoload adjustment in the fsm or any explanation from Toyota on how to acheive a preloaded release bearing to indicate it,s a constant bearing. Until you can prove otherwise , the release bearing doesnt turn.If you put your flashlight between the release arm to see if the bearing is turning, chances are it was misadjusted at the factory.Have you tried to adjust the pedal free play ?Have you tried adjusting your master cylinder pushrod ? Not sure where some of the technicians were schooled , perhaps they were misinformed . Can you explain why members here, after making the above adjustment made their noise go away by removing the preload?
    .And everyone wonders why the Tacoma,s have so many problems with the throw out bearing ?

    If you still have a factory clutch , find a way to lubricate the shaft that the throw out bearing rides on . The lube Toyota uses wears out too quick

    TSB for squeky clutch pedal [​IMG] Toyota TSB Clutch.pdf

    Technical service bulletin http://www.tacomahq.com/2438/clutch-pedal-recall-expands-tsb/

    Technical service bulletin http://www.tacomahq.com/330/2005-2011-toyota-tacoma-clutch-
    noise-tsb/


    Check your truck for TSB,s... Check for TSB,s http://www.toyotaproblems.com/tsbs/Tacoma/

    Type in your VIN # here and see what,s been done to your truck at the dealership
    http://www.toyota.com/owners/web/pages/home

    Type in your VIN # here and see if there are any safety concerns or recall,s on your truck
    http://www.toyota.com/recall

    Here is a complete parts diagram with prices .I suggest downloading it all before it disappears . [​IMG] 2013 Toyota Tacoma Pickup.pdf


    Clutch accumullator delete kit for better feel
    https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/clutch-accumulator-delete-kit.583387/


    Here are the gear ratios
    RA60 (2WD 6 speed)
    4.171
    2.190
    1.488
    1.193
    1.000
    0.849

    RA60F (Tacoma 4wd 6 speed)
    4.171
    2.190
    1.488
    1.193
    1.000
    0.849

    RA61F (FJ 4wd 6 speed)
    4.171
    2.190
    1.488
    1.193
    1.000
    0.799

    HOW TO CHANGE YOUR FLUID (WRITE UP With PICS) and best fluid to use http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2n...w-6-speed-manual-transmission-oil-change.html

    You think you need a clutch ? ( Write UP With PICS)
    http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/te...lutch-replacement-needed-difficult-level.html

    Here is the part number to replace the shifter bushing
    Toyota Part no. 33548-60040 . You can also get this bushing from Marlin Crawler and all the guys say its better than the factory bushing
    https://www.marlincrawler.com/transmission/shifter-parts/heavy-duty-sockets


    TRD quick shifter review http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2n...ter-review-install-tips-couple-questions.html

    TRD short shifter questions http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2n...hifter-guys-out-there-questions-opinions.html

    Hurst shifter review /questions http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2nd-gen-tacomas/274714-core-hurst-short-throw-shifter.html

    URD short shifter and review http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/underdog-racing-development/31803-short-throw-shifter-kit.html

    Sloppy Shifter ? http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2nd-gen-tacomas/243818-sloppy-6spd-shifter.html

    and More sloppy shifter info http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2nd-gen-tacomas/243818-sloppy-6spd-shifter.html The military should dispose of these things like they did in the past . Sell them to Arnold Swarzenegger

    Shifter knobs / shifter boots / e brake boots
    https://www.infocushift.com/shiftknobs/

    REV HANG https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/is-my-4-0-manual-trans-running-right.531145/#post-17012397

    Broken URD shifter http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/te...tick-shift-after-urd-shift-kit-install-2.html

    Broken internal bell housing quill . this is where the release bearing fits on the bell housing https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/broken-transmission-input-shaft-snout.274818/

    Superduty tranmission mount http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/4x-innovations/93081-tacoma-super-duty-transmission-mount.html

    Screw the Aisn transmission , you can get a T56 now http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2nd-gen-tacomas/329958-t56-transmission-swap-kit.html

    Blown throw out bearing
    https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads...gs-and-shift-detent-mod.614290/#post-25482603


    Swapping in a manual transmission from automatic and here . Is it really worth the trouble and money ? https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/safetydang-dc-build-4wd-swap-manual-trans-swap-thread.247243/

    Should you shift without the clutch ? http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2n...tacoma-6-speed-manual-transmission-issue.html

    Are you having trouble with reverse ?
    http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2nd-gen-tacomas/343424-6-speed-clunky-reverse.html

    Clutch pedal sticks to floor when cold http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2n...utch-pedal-sticks-floor-when-really-cold.html

    Do you have trouble shifting ? is it clunky ?
    http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2nd-gen-tacomas/342768-6spd-manual-hard-shifting.html

    FIX THAT THROW OUT BEARING http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2n...aring-release-bearing-issues-v6-6speed-5.html

    Replacing the throw out bearing again ? http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2nd-gen-tacomas/17819-throwout-bearing-again-20.html

    HERE IS THE URD THROW OUT BEARING KIT http://urdusa.com/p1260519023/Throw...IT,-2005+-Tacoma-V6-6-Speed/product_info.html

    HERE IS THE PDM KIT http://pdmusa1.com/

    SQUEAKY CLUTCH PEDAL http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2nd-gen-tacomas/12837-squeaky-clutch-pedal.html

    Cant shift into R,1,3,5 after clutch job .http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2n...lp-csnt-shift-into-r-1-3-5-a.html#post9328878



    Squeaky pedal fix write up ( with pics )
    http://www.customtacos.com/forum/128-2005/97704-squeaky-clutch-still-problem.html

    Warranty replacement 6 speed http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2n...ge-told-im-getting-new-6spd-transmission.html

    Dont want to fill our streets with any more horrifying death machines when we already have GM :D

    Aftermarket unit with a warranty ( Example ) http://www.midwesttrans.com/Toyota_r_series.html

    Best place I could find for bearing kit and synchros( example ) http://www.midwesttrans.com/Toyota_r_series.html

    Reducing the noise of the transmission inside the cab with pics ( write up )
    http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2n...speed-transmission-noise-cabin-pic-heavy.html

    Superduty transmission mount http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/4x-innovations/93081-tacoma-super-duty-transmission-mount.html

    Solid motor mounts and transmission mounts
    https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads...ted-solid-motor-mounts-for-sale.406631/page-4

    Aftermarket skid plate review http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2nd-gen-tacomas/307109-aftermarket-skid-plate-reviews.html


    What are Tacoma owners saying about the 6 speed ? http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2nd-gen-tacomas/285705-how-6-spd-standard-tacoma.html

    Has the 6 speed improved over the years ? http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2n...ve-6-speed-manual-transmissions-improved.html

    Broken or cracked cross member 2009 and earlier
    http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2nd-gen-tacomas/191765-large-cracks-transmission-crossmember.html

    There are a few concerns with the 6 speed and downshifting http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2nd-gen-tacomas/86045-manual-transmission-downshifting.html
    Hypertech speedometer calibrator http://www.hypertech-inc.com/products-speedometer-calibrator.aspx

    Yes , a version of your transmission also came in a Camero . You can read the issues the Chevy guys had here http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56499

    And here https://kaizenfactor.wordpress.com/...z-fr-s-gt-86-manual-transmission-or-is-scion/

    ____________________________

    ____________________________________________________
    I thought it would be a good idea to throw this in here ....Changing your diff fluid steb by step with pictures http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/technical-chat/24545-changing-differential-fluid-step-step-how.html

    Here is the write up for changing the fluid in your front diff and transfer case with pics
    http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2n...ront-diff-transfer-case-oil-change-howto.html
    ___________________

    MODS
    Get a sequential transmission for race day
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiOWTsS3jUY
    Here is the complete service/ repair manual for your truck. Download it while its still there

    COMPLETE SERVICE MANUAL http://www.customtacos.com/tech.old/...SM/repair.html


    Complete wiring schematic
    http://www.customtacos.com/tech.old/files/05FSM/wiring.html


    _____________________________________________________________
    WHAT DOES THE PILOT BEARING DO ?
    When you push your clutch pedal down to the floor the clutch disc is pulled away from the flywheel . The purpose of the pilot bearing is to support the radial load of the spinning clutch disc when the clutch disc is moved away from the flywheel . A clutch disc doesnt seem heavy when you hold it in your hands , but think about when you dump your clutch at 5000 rpm . Here is the catch .... Your 6 speed doesnt use a pilot bearing . The input shaft on the 6 speed has been beefed up , the front transmission bearing has been beefed up and the input shaft to output shaft bearing has been beefed up to compensate for the missing pilot bearing . With this said , I still beleive Aisn Warner needs to do a little more homework and in my opinion should have left the pilot bearing in place . From what I can tell ,some of you guys are having far too many release bearing issues and I believe one of the reasons is because of the missing pilot bearing .

    What does the clutch accumulator do ? Can you remove it and will your clutch continue to function ?
    https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/what-does-a-clutch-fluid-accumulator-do.180006/


    RA60 Manual Transmission: SST
    RA60 Manual Transmission: Recommended Tools, Equipment
    RA60 Manual Transmission: Lubricant, SSM
    RA60F Manual Transmission: SST
    RA60F Manual Transmission: Recommended Tools, Equipment
    RA60F Manual Transmission: Lubricant, SSM
    RA60 Manual Transmission: Service Data
    RA60 Manual Transmission: Torque Specifications
    RA60F Manual Transmission: Service Data
    RA60F Manual Transmission: Torque Specifications
    RA60 Manual Transmission
    Manual Transmission System: Problem Symptoms Table
    Manual Transmission Oil: On-Vehicle Inspection
    Manual Transmission Extension Housing Oil Seal: Removal, Installation
    Manual Transmission Assembly: Components
    Manual Transmission Assembly: Removal, Installation
    Manual Transmission Unit: Components, Disassembly
    Manual Transmission Unit: Reassembly
    Input Shaft: Components, Disassembly, Inspection, Reassembly
    Output Shaft: Components, Disassembly, Inspection
    Output Shaft: Reassembly
    Counter Gear And Reverse Idler Gear: Components, Disassembly, Inspection, Reassembly
    RA60F Manual Transmission

    Manual Transmission System: Problem Symptoms Table
    Manual Transmission Oil: On-Vehicle Inspection
    Manual Transmission Assembly: Components
    Manual Transmission Assembly: Removal
    Manual Transmission Assembly: Installation
    Manual Transmission Unit: Components, Disassembly
    Manual Transmission Unit: Reassembly
    Input Shaft: Components, Disassembly, Inspection, Reassembly
    Output Shaft: Components, Disassembly, Inspection
    Output Shaft: Reassembly
    Counter Gear And Reverse Idler Gear: Components, Disassembly, Inspection, Reassembly
    Manual Transmission System: Problem Symptoms Table
    Manual Transmission Oil: On-Vehicle Inspection
    Manual Transmission Assembly: Components
    Manual Transmission Assembly: Removal
    Manual Transmission Assembly: Installation
    Manual Transmission Unit: Components, Disassembly
    Manual Transmission Unit: Reassembly
    Input Shaft: Components, Disassembly, Inspection, Reassembly
    Output Shaft: Components, Disassembly, Inspection
    Output Shaft: Reassembly
    Counter Gear And Reverse Idler Gear: Components, Disassembly, Inspection, Reasse





    CLUTCH
    Clutch System (For RA60): Problem Symptoms Table
    Clutch System (For RA60F): Problem Symptoms Table
    Clutch Pedal: Components, On-Vehicle Inspection
    Clutch Pedal: Removal
    Clutch Pedal: Installation
    Clutch Master Cylinder: Components, Removal
    Clutch Master Cylinder: Installation
    Clutch Release Cylinder (For RA60): Components, Removal
    Clutch Release Cylinder (For RA60): Disassembly, Reassembly, Installation
    Clutch Release Cylinder (For RA60F): Components, Removal
    Clutch Release Cylinder (For RA60F): Disassembly, Reassembly, Installation
    Clutch Accumulator (For RA60): Removal, Installation
    Clutch Accumulator (For RA60F): Removal, Installation
    Clutch Unit (For RA60): Components, Removal, Inspection, Installation
    Clutch Unit (For RA60F): Components, Removal, Inspection, Installation
    Clutch Start Switch: On-Vehicle Inspection, Removal, Inspection, Installation
    Clutch Start Cancel Switch: Inspection

    Read what Spicer has to say about greasing your driveline
    http://www2.dana.com/pdf/J3299-2-DSSP.PDF

    Quote:
    The AY-6 is a 6-speed manual transmission manufactured by Aisin. It is designed for longitudinal engine applications and can handle up to 345 ft·lbf (468 N·m) of torque.
    General Motors used the AY-6 as RPO MV1.
    Gear ratios:
    1 2 3 4 5 6 R 4.17 2.19 1.49 1.19 1.00 0.84 3.67 Applications:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisin_AY_transmission

    From Aisin website -
    Quote:
    High Torque Capacity RWD 6-speed Manual Transmission (AY6)

    Lightweight, Compact and High Performance (Shift Operability, Quietness, and High Capacity) 6-speed MT
    [​IMG]
    • Lightweight and compact size achieved by reduced gear width of new gear train
    • Improved shift quality and reduced gear noise through new gear train
    http://www.aisin.com/product/automot...etrain/mt.html


    When you get pulled over by the police officer and he asks whats that smell as you roll your window down , just tell him it,s a skunk you rescued and you are taking it to the shelter
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
    Taco2525, Wsidr1, TXpro4X4 and 11 others like this.
  2. Aug 5, 2014 at 5:03 AM
    #2
    Ghost848

    Ghost848 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Member:
    #74480
    Messages:
    1,546
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tony
    Alberta,Canada
    Vehicle:
    09 V6 TRD OR Silver M6
    OME + Dakers, 285/75R16 Nitto Trail Grapplers, ARB Bumper, Columbia overland Dual battery, Super winch,CC stage 4 clutch, bestop supertop, URD TO bearing, BHLM headlights, Cruisin offroad rear bumper, Harrop front E-locker.
    Subbed! Good info! Thanks man!
     
  3. Aug 5, 2014 at 5:04 AM
    #3
    tostidos

    tostidos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2010
    Member:
    #48149
    Messages:
    4,759
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Chris
    Apple Valley, CA
    Vehicle:
    07 LT 6spd
    subbed. Good info thanks.

    Final Drive is .85 IIRC. saw it on another thread.
     
  4. Aug 5, 2014 at 5:10 AM
    #4
    maineah

    maineah Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Member:
    #53641
    Messages:
    5,215
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tim
    Maine
    Vehicle:
    4X4 SR5 V6 6spd
    Good info thanks. No wonder the 6 spd has a lot of neutral gear noise!
     
  5. Aug 5, 2014 at 5:45 AM
    #5
    kenneth.morris07

    kenneth.morris07 كافر‎

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2014
    Member:
    #124665
    Messages:
    2,137
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Kenneth
    College Station, TX
    Vehicle:
    08 PreRunner
    Relentless Fab plate bumper,aFe Cold air intake, 12" JL sub, RE tweeters and speakers, Kenwood Head unit, Autodim/temp/compass mirror from Bob, baffled oil catch can
    Awesome info! Subbed. +1. and should be a sticky.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2014
  6. Aug 5, 2014 at 8:58 AM
    #6
    hladun

    hladun Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    Member:
    #79246
    Messages:
    178
    Gender:
    Male
    Alberta
    Vehicle:
    Tacoma
    Gearcruncher says "Your throw out bearing is semi-centrifical which means it only turns when you push your pedal down .When your foot is off the clutch pedal , the throw out bearing is NOT suppose to turn .As your clutch wears in , the throw out bearing begins to turn all the time and wears the bearing out unless a clutch adjustment is made . "

    This is not true. Most modern transmissions have the TO bearing turning all the time by applying a spring force. This prevents having to "adjust" the clutch. Unfortunately, the Toyota design is a bad example. The spring in the slave cylinder is too weak to ensure that the TO bearing has positive engagement with the clutch fingers. As a result the TO bearing slips and rattles and destroys things. The solution is to do what I have done in the following post:

    http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/technical-chat/272427-fix-squeaking-clutch.html
     
  7. Aug 5, 2014 at 9:03 AM
    #7
    samiam

    samiam Always here, never there

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Member:
    #54533
    Messages:
    3,133
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Sam
    Stinky Vegas
    Vehicle:
    2008 TRD OR DCSB 4.0 6MT 1E7 Alu Cab
    Workin' on Workin' on it
    Great information. Thanks for putting it all together.
     
  8. Aug 5, 2014 at 10:00 AM
    #8
    mak90

    mak90 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2009
    Member:
    #25411
    Messages:
    397
    Gender:
    Male
    Central Coast, Ca.
    Vehicle:
    06 Tacoma 4x4 TRD Off Road 6 spd
    TRD Exhaust, TSB springs,Weathertech mats,Bed mat, Wet Okole seat covers, TRD Pro Suspension
    Sub'd good info thanks
     
  9. Aug 5, 2014 at 11:38 AM
    #9
    gearcruncher

    gearcruncher [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Member:
    #90305
    Messages:
    6,304
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Canadain bumper technician
    Great white North 51.0333° N, 93.8333° W
    Vehicle:
    2010.TRD.SportDCLB4x4Limited leather package
    TRD Sport Rally -5 speed automatic Limited ,Factory heated leather seats ,chrome package,Super white with front windows tinted to 35 % Dick Cepek DC-2 wheels Summer tires - Good year silent armor P265/65R17 Winter tires - Good year P265/65R17 Ultra Ice studded Illuminated 4x4 switch TRD 3rd brake light cover ($20) TRD seat belt shoulder protectors (5). ($50) TRD ...B pillar emblems ($20) TRD rear slider sticker with devil horns ( $6) TRD summer floor matts ($60) TRD steering wheel emblem ($20) TRD floor pedals .($95) TRD shorty antenna ($14) TRD front Windshield emblems ($17) TRD head pillows .($60) TRD head rest protectors TRD door scuff protection $20 TRD floor matt emblems ($40) TRD tow plug emblem . ($40) TRD cigarette lighter with LED.($35) TRD tissue dispenser ($12) TRD front bezel emblems ($9) TRD door emblems ($6) TRD lanyards($9) TRD lisence plates with TRD bolts($50) TRD fender emblems TRD center caps Part Number:PT904-35070-CC ($80) TRD cd
    Did you read the FSM ? http://www.customtacos.com/tech.old...6toyrm/06toypdf/06rmsrc/rm2006ta/02900510.pdf
    and here is another
    http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/clutches_etc.htm

    Can you explain why the FSM calls for free play ?

    According to the dealer I called , the bearing is designed as semi centrifical . This is not a self adjusting clutch with a fully centrifical release bearing ;). I will be honest and tell you that I also thought the release bearing was designed as fully centrifcal or constant contact design , but then I read the FSM and found out they want free play which would essentially indicate they dont want any preload on the pressure plate . Thats when I made a couple calls to different dealers . Some of the mechanics were clueless about the issue . If you follow the manufacturers FSM , they require free play . All manufacturers with the internal slave cylinder and spring set up,s require free play except Ford vehicles . Ford is just to lazy to admit that there is an issue .

    Here is another explanation http://www.howacarworks.com/transmission/adjusting-the-clutch
    And here is another explanation http://www.clutchpro.com.au/files/TSB-TB01.pdf
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2014
  10. Aug 5, 2014 at 11:41 AM
    #10
    POOLGUY

    POOLGUY Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2013
    Member:
    #97958
    Messages:
    2,375
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    JEFF
    ALABAMA
    Vehicle:
    08 TRD SPORT 6 SPEED
    Dobinsons suspension
    Sub'd. Thanks for the info.
     
  11. Aug 5, 2014 at 12:26 PM
    #11
    hladun

    hladun Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    Member:
    #79246
    Messages:
    178
    Gender:
    Male
    Alberta
    Vehicle:
    Tacoma
    First point, because you're talking about the clutch pedal and I'm talking about the slave cylinder.

    Second point, centrifical is not a word and this is a self adjusting clutch in the sense that it adjusts for clutch disc wear. There is no slave cylinder clearance adjustment on the push rod.
     
  12. Aug 5, 2014 at 1:39 PM
    #12
    gearcruncher

    gearcruncher [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Member:
    #90305
    Messages:
    6,304
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Canadain bumper technician
    Great white North 51.0333° N, 93.8333° W
    Vehicle:
    2010.TRD.SportDCLB4x4Limited leather package
    TRD Sport Rally -5 speed automatic Limited ,Factory heated leather seats ,chrome package,Super white with front windows tinted to 35 % Dick Cepek DC-2 wheels Summer tires - Good year silent armor P265/65R17 Winter tires - Good year P265/65R17 Ultra Ice studded Illuminated 4x4 switch TRD 3rd brake light cover ($20) TRD seat belt shoulder protectors (5). ($50) TRD ...B pillar emblems ($20) TRD rear slider sticker with devil horns ( $6) TRD summer floor matts ($60) TRD steering wheel emblem ($20) TRD floor pedals .($95) TRD shorty antenna ($14) TRD front Windshield emblems ($17) TRD head pillows .($60) TRD head rest protectors TRD door scuff protection $20 TRD floor matt emblems ($40) TRD tow plug emblem . ($40) TRD cigarette lighter with LED.($35) TRD tissue dispenser ($12) TRD front bezel emblems ($9) TRD door emblems ($6) TRD lanyards($9) TRD lisence plates with TRD bolts($50) TRD fender emblems TRD center caps Part Number:PT904-35070-CC ($80) TRD cd
    Sorry for the confusion with centrifical . I actually got that word out of one of my transmission books when I was in school for the trade hehehe . I will have to give the Author of the book .. JOHN H WHITE some hell .
    Centrifugal is what I should have used :D


    The free play adjustment for the clutch release bearing is made at the top of the pedal .They changed their design from the push rod to the top of the pedal . This means that they do not want the bearing preloaded against the pressure plate .In the illustration , it shows a clutch pedal return spring to return the pedal to the top of travel .If you take the free play out of the clutch pedal , your release bearing will turn all the time .

    EDIT , I beleive the same transmission is used on the new gen Camero,s . GM also requires free play . I am not sure what type of clutch systems are used in Porsche, Jaguar, Volvo, Maserati, Alfa Romeo , but I would be interested to know if these manufacturers require free play as well .
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2014
  13. Aug 5, 2014 at 2:14 PM
    #13
    hladun

    hladun Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    Member:
    #79246
    Messages:
    178
    Gender:
    Male
    Alberta
    Vehicle:
    Tacoma
    No, the free play in the clutch pedal is to ensure that the MASTER cylinder fully extends so brake fluid can enter through the port in the master cylinder if it needs to. You could pre-load the slave cylinder by setting the clutch pedal to apply pressure but then you're running the risk of not having enough brake fluid in the system. Your clutch would then disengage at progressively lower pedal levels.

    As I say in my post most vehicles actually do preload their TO bearings. Toyota does it poorly and that's why it fails.
     
  14. Aug 5, 2014 at 2:45 PM
    #14
    gearcruncher

    gearcruncher [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Member:
    #90305
    Messages:
    6,304
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Canadain bumper technician
    Great white North 51.0333° N, 93.8333° W
    Vehicle:
    2010.TRD.SportDCLB4x4Limited leather package
    TRD Sport Rally -5 speed automatic Limited ,Factory heated leather seats ,chrome package,Super white with front windows tinted to 35 % Dick Cepek DC-2 wheels Summer tires - Good year silent armor P265/65R17 Winter tires - Good year P265/65R17 Ultra Ice studded Illuminated 4x4 switch TRD 3rd brake light cover ($20) TRD seat belt shoulder protectors (5). ($50) TRD ...B pillar emblems ($20) TRD rear slider sticker with devil horns ( $6) TRD summer floor matts ($60) TRD steering wheel emblem ($20) TRD floor pedals .($95) TRD shorty antenna ($14) TRD front Windshield emblems ($17) TRD head pillows .($60) TRD head rest protectors TRD door scuff protection $20 TRD floor matt emblems ($40) TRD tow plug emblem . ($40) TRD cigarette lighter with LED.($35) TRD tissue dispenser ($12) TRD front bezel emblems ($9) TRD door emblems ($6) TRD lanyards($9) TRD lisence plates with TRD bolts($50) TRD fender emblems TRD center caps Part Number:PT904-35070-CC ($80) TRD cd
    Your theory works well on a new clutch under ideal conditions , but take into consideration that as the clutch begins to wear out and the pressure plate fingers move towards the release bearing which would partially apply the clutch . Presently happening with most Tacoma owners .With this in mind ,your theory removes all the adjustment capabilty and doesnt compensate for clutch disc wear .Toyota uses pedal free play and a push rod adjuster under the dash . The release bearing should be stationary in neutral with the truck running .
    Going to work ...this has been fun:D
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2014
  15. Aug 5, 2014 at 3:04 PM
    #15
    hladun

    hladun Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    Member:
    #79246
    Messages:
    178
    Gender:
    Male
    Alberta
    Vehicle:
    Tacoma
    No again, when the master cylinder is fully extended the port is open to the reservoir and the master cylinder is at zero pressure. How can the slave cylinder apply force at zero pressure? Only whatever internal spring there is in the slave cylinder keeps the TO bearing against the clutch fingers. Since at this point the slave cylinder is open to the reservoir it fills with whatever volume of fluid it can handle. Yes, it does have less fluid in it as the clutch wears (it adjusts) but it's still at zero pressure.

    An finally, if the release bearing was stationary in neutral why does it squeal???
     
  16. Aug 6, 2014 at 4:13 AM
    #16
    maineah

    maineah Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Member:
    #53641
    Messages:
    5,215
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tim
    Maine
    Vehicle:
    4X4 SR5 V6 6spd
    This^^ Like it or not it can touch the clutch cover but with no pressure. The older trucks had an adjustable clutch rod they wore out clutches and release bearings from lack of proper adjustment because they bottomed out in the cylinder as the clutch wore. Admittedly I have not had a late model slave cylinder apart but I doubt that there is a spring in side because it would serve no practical purpose and cause the bearing to touch the cover all the time. The main concern it the aluminum sleeve the bearing assembly rides on that is what wares and causes it to bind and run off center.
     
  17. Aug 6, 2014 at 4:46 AM
    #17
    gearcruncher

    gearcruncher [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Member:
    #90305
    Messages:
    6,304
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Canadain bumper technician
    Great white North 51.0333° N, 93.8333° W
    Vehicle:
    2010.TRD.SportDCLB4x4Limited leather package
    TRD Sport Rally -5 speed automatic Limited ,Factory heated leather seats ,chrome package,Super white with front windows tinted to 35 % Dick Cepek DC-2 wheels Summer tires - Good year silent armor P265/65R17 Winter tires - Good year P265/65R17 Ultra Ice studded Illuminated 4x4 switch TRD 3rd brake light cover ($20) TRD seat belt shoulder protectors (5). ($50) TRD ...B pillar emblems ($20) TRD rear slider sticker with devil horns ( $6) TRD summer floor matts ($60) TRD steering wheel emblem ($20) TRD floor pedals .($95) TRD shorty antenna ($14) TRD front Windshield emblems ($17) TRD head pillows .($60) TRD head rest protectors TRD door scuff protection $20 TRD floor matt emblems ($40) TRD tow plug emblem . ($40) TRD cigarette lighter with LED.($35) TRD tissue dispenser ($12) TRD front bezel emblems ($9) TRD door emblems ($6) TRD lanyards($9) TRD lisence plates with TRD bolts($50) TRD fender emblems TRD center caps Part Number:PT904-35070-CC ($80) TRD cd
    Just got home from work .
    Gonna throw the book at ya:D
    read this http://books.google.ca/books?id=xVUEAAAAQBAJ&pg=PA109&lpg=PA109&dq=should+the+release+bearing+always+turn&source=bl&ots=suc5O6rhx6&sig=T6TbuF0oC5G_fFO-EPVUxQo2UyI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=fxTiU47uHYyWyAT7k4KgCA&ved=0CDwQ6AEwBTgK#v=onepage&q=should%20the%20release%20bearing%20always%20turn&f=false

    I agree that the release bearing should be in close contact with the fingers of the pressure plate as Maineah points out .
    Lets get something out of he way . Can we both agree that as the clutch disc begins to wear , the fingers on the pressure plate move closer to the release bearing ?
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2014
  18. Aug 6, 2014 at 7:23 AM
    #18
    hladun

    hladun Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    Member:
    #79246
    Messages:
    178
    Gender:
    Male
    Alberta
    Vehicle:
    Tacoma
    The answer to your question is no; in a modern, non-adjustable clutch the fingers are always touching the release bearing. As the clutch wears both the release bearing and the fingers automatically move towards the transmission.

    Look at page 111 figure 3-48 of the book you posted. (Ford uses concentric slave cylinders like these.) What do you think the PRELOAD spring does??? It's the lack of sufficient preload on Toyota's that causes all the problems.

    Gearcruncher, you've put together a good list of information but I wouldn't have you work on my truck.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2014
  19. Aug 6, 2014 at 8:58 AM
    #19
    samiam

    samiam Always here, never there

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Member:
    #54533
    Messages:
    3,133
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Sam
    Stinky Vegas
    Vehicle:
    2008 TRD OR DCSB 4.0 6MT 1E7 Alu Cab
    Workin' on Workin' on it
    Interesting debate going on here. My clutch pedal has no play at the top and my TO bearing has a slight whine when when not engaged. This weekend I will make the recomended adjustment and see if it makes any difference.
     
  20. Aug 6, 2014 at 12:14 PM
    #20
    gearcruncher

    gearcruncher [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Member:
    #90305
    Messages:
    6,304
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Canadain bumper technician
    Great white North 51.0333° N, 93.8333° W
    Vehicle:
    2010.TRD.SportDCLB4x4Limited leather package
    TRD Sport Rally -5 speed automatic Limited ,Factory heated leather seats ,chrome package,Super white with front windows tinted to 35 % Dick Cepek DC-2 wheels Summer tires - Good year silent armor P265/65R17 Winter tires - Good year P265/65R17 Ultra Ice studded Illuminated 4x4 switch TRD 3rd brake light cover ($20) TRD seat belt shoulder protectors (5). ($50) TRD ...B pillar emblems ($20) TRD rear slider sticker with devil horns ( $6) TRD summer floor matts ($60) TRD steering wheel emblem ($20) TRD floor pedals .($95) TRD shorty antenna ($14) TRD front Windshield emblems ($17) TRD head pillows .($60) TRD head rest protectors TRD door scuff protection $20 TRD floor matt emblems ($40) TRD tow plug emblem . ($40) TRD cigarette lighter with LED.($35) TRD tissue dispenser ($12) TRD front bezel emblems ($9) TRD door emblems ($6) TRD lanyards($9) TRD lisence plates with TRD bolts($50) TRD fender emblems TRD center caps Part Number:PT904-35070-CC ($80) TRD cd
    And you will notice after you make the adjustment , the noise will go away providing all is good with the components
     

Products Discussed in

To Top